wow.. .. ... im cantonese and born in hk, but i always thought oriental is asian but from china towards the east including japan, phillipines, korea.. .. .. i never knew oriental was just a focal point for objects and not an area description.. .. .. .. ..

well.. offense is "in the eye of the beholder"..

hey.. whats your take on the term japanime

Hmmm well I always called someone born in asia ' asian' , but in UK Asian means 'Indian' and other asian people are referred to as oriental. I found that quite strange.

Growing up I always thought of oriental as exotic, warm, frragrent, spices and rugs! The whole Laurence of Arabia experience so the word oriental was quite different.

To me oriental is quite a beautiful word because it conjurs beautiful thoughts. Although I'm saddened to see 'Oriental' and 'Exotic' combined to mean something far more sleazy these days. Perhaps thats why so many people have a problem with it or perhaps the people who would have used the word oriental. Frankly I don't think someone racist would call someone 'oriental' they'd use a far nastier word.

I'm sick of our politically correct world which is a pretty facade under a lot of racism that exists. At least in Japan people are openly racist and curious, but you can win peoples hearts and minds because they are open to experience. I don't give a toss what people call me as long as they respect me!

Oh wow.. I never understood the usage of "oriental" and "asian" up until now.. haha.. thanks. But I guess it's not a big deal where I'm from... A lot of "Asians" in Vancouver so we kinda ask more specifically whether you are Japanese, Korean, Chinese, etc.. My thing is that I don't find being called "oriental" a big deal but I won't call other people what they don't want to be called.. I think that's fair enough.

hi - just signed in yesterday. i just wanted to say that, from what i recall, rebecca the jew in sir walter scott's "ivanhoe" was described as looking oriental. she was from spain. i think that oriental was a term english writers used to vaguely describe some fantastic and/or colorful appearance. it also implied sadistic torture, sexual pleasure, and a weird exoticism. in other words, "they're not like us." my understanding is that some asians don't like the use of that term because of this, though it doesn't bother me at all (i'm half japanese, half caucasian myself).

as for jap, the wife of james michener, who is japanese, warned her hubby once of not using it because "hearst used it to crucify us in his newspaper". the second time he used it, she told him she'd break all his teeth with a ketchup bottle if he used it again. then he understood.

my own feeling is that you use a term that others find offensive only if you intend to offend them and know better, which i hardly think is anyone's intent here. of course, if you don't care what people think, there is no point in communicating, is there?

Duneman wrote:

my own feeling is that you use a term that others find offensive only if you intend to offend them and know better, which i hardly think is anyone's intent here.

That's more than likely true, but I think it would be wise to err on the side of caution and not use the term, because it could be misinterpreted as a slur...

I have found the term "Jap" offensive. I know in the recent years on the original Dorama ML, we had people from Asia who used it but didn't know it was offensive and Americans who were quick to point out to them that it was.

I can tell you that in my own experience, I find it offensive. Here in the US, back in the 80's... There were Americans who didn't like Japanese buying a lot of the major properties and there were some who felt threatened because they felt the Japanese were to blame for their loss of job or unemployment. Many Japanese and people who were thought to be Japanese were murdered and beaten.

My family is one of those who were targeted. We are not Japanese, we are Filipino. At the time, there were not many Asian families in the town we lived in but it was diverse with a lot of cultures but due to this scare...someone or group felt they had the need to take something out on us. Our home was vandalized, vehicles destroyed (tires nailed, sugar in the gas tank), phone lines cut, water cut, electric lines down, and all over our home outside were spraypainted were the words "Go home Japs!". My family are not of Japanese descent but I guess some idiots out there tend to use the "they all look the same" approach and wanted us to live our lives in fear.

If anything, this situation led me to learn about Japanese culture, the learn about the history of Japanese-Americans in the past, as well as other Asian cultures and the challenges Asians have faced in the US.

I understand that certain terms that are used one country may or not be used in another but if one is going to create a site for global appeal then you have to be aware and be cautious.

Although the post was made several years ago, I'm hoping that the original post helped find the answer to their question and others may have learned something in return.

kndy

kndy-nt2099 wrote:

I have found the term "Jap" offensive. I know in the recent years on the original Dorama ML, we had people from Asia who used it but didn't know it was offensive and Americans who were quick to point out to them that it was. I can tell you that in my own experience, I find it offensive. Here in the US, back in the 80's... There were Americans who didn't like Japanese buying a lot of the major properties and there were some who felt threatened because they felt the Japanese were to blame for their loss of job or unemployment. Many Japanese and people who were thought to be Japanese were murdered and beaten. My family is one of those who were targeted. We are not Japanese, we are Filipino. At the time, there were not many Asian families in the town we lived in but it was diverse with a lot of cultures but due to this scare...someone or group felt they had the need to take something out on us. Our home was vandalized, vehicles destroyed (tires nailed, sugar in the gas tank), phone lines cut, water cut, electric lines down, and all over our home outside were spraypainted were the words "Go home Japs!". My family are not of Japanese descent but I guess some idiots out there tend to use the "they all look the same" approach and wanted us to live our lives in fear. If anything, this situation led me to learn about Japanese culture, the learn about the history of Japanese-Americans in the past, as well as other Asian cultures and the challenges Asians have faced in the US. I understand that certain terms that are used one country may or not be used in another but if one is going to create a site for global appeal then you have to be aware and be cautious. Although the post was made several years ago, I'm hoping that the original post helped find the answer to their question and others may have learned something in return. kndy

Sad story... I remember all of that anti-Japanese sentiment: those UAW workers smashing Toyotas with sledge hammers and stuff... Scary. Most of these knuckleheads didn't know a Japanese from a Chinese from a Korean from a Filipino... And they really didn't care. They just lumped everybody into one group. This was all before all the new laws regarding hate crimes and stuff, so there weren't many avenues to take aside from just telling the police...

i was in the mba program at cal state northridge. can't tell you how much hate i was subjected to. i ended up leaving the program. none of the professors (except the economics professor) ever said anything about it. oh well, there's always on line classes...

Duneman wrote:

i was in the mba program at cal state northridge. can't tell you how much hate i was subjected to. i ended up leaving the program. none of the professors (except the economics professor) ever said anything about it. oh well, there's always on line classes...

At a university??? That's unbelievable.

You got to really dislike hate crimes or acts of violence or discrimination that is racially motivated. Racism sucks, plain and simple......


Like what is said before, the term "Jap" is usually offensive and it's recommended that you don't use it. Some people might think of it as a negative comment, even if you didn't mean any harm or try and use it as an abbreviation for Japanese people. In honest truth, some people just use it as a habit, not because they are using it in an offensive manner.


Regardless, it's not that hard not to use that word anyways. I have never EVER used that term before, and I never will. Luckily, around my school and such, there is a wide variety of racial groups and backgrounds so discrimination and racism isn't really evident. People are tolerant of another person's racial background and culture, minus a few odd idiots out there, which is a good thing.

im not japanese so i dont think i'll understand..but i dont think jap should be offensive..only if da way you are saying it r know someone is meaning it to be racist.i dont say jap cuz i kno it offends some ppl but like Filipino some ppl say flip and da ppl dont get offended..most of da ppl oh well it can be offending to some ppl but i dont use da word jap since it seems like most ppl r offended by dat..ppl always say nigga n stuff and back den non-black ppl always call black ppl nigger but sometimes ppl dont say nigga n an offensive way so dats like da same as saying jap kinda..so i think it just depends on how da ppl are saying it..it sounds offending tho but i dont think sometimes its meant to be ..

mizsymurda wrote:

im not japanese so i dont think i'll understand..but i dont think jap should be offensive..only if da way you are saying it r know someone is meaning it to be racist.i dont say jap cuz i kno it offends some ppl but like Filipino some ppl say flip and da ppl dont get offended..most of da ppl oh well it can be offending to some ppl but i dont use da word jap since it seems like most ppl r offended by dat..

Me and my Filipino friends used to used the word "Flip" but as we got on the Internet long ago, we experienced first hand how people in Philippines really hate that term and really got on your case for using it (like on mIRC), I don't use it anymore.

kndy

after reading this thread (yes the ENTIRE thing lol) I have a few questions. Before I do, as a side note I ask that a.you don't chew my head of (bcuz I'll bitch back ) and b. understand that if I AM asking is bcuz I want to be well informed and not trying to offend anyone. That said my questions would be:

1.I've heard (quite a few times) that non-japanese in Japan are racist in the way they refer to non-japanese, especially those that are living/working in Japan. ... supposing this is true, why would they do that? especially when they take offense when others use derogatory terms against them? and if it's just for fun, is it not still hurting the people you are talking about?

2.I have always refered to anything and everything in/or from Asia as asian since I figure that's what the place is called and not Orient. Is this considered wrong? should asian (ie asian lamp, asian rug) not be used?

I myself have ever used the term j** and try to never use ANY terms that are derrogatory to ANY culture, race, etc. I think the world is in a sad enough state w/o me having to add to it. I also respect and love many cultures (Arabs, Asians, Indians, Greeks, and just about everything else you can think of I probably like something of them ) and have loved them ever since I can remember (I must thank my mom for that bcuz she has always been very open to foreign cultures)

btw...on a ligther note, my name is supposed to be chinese, a sort of combination of mai ling but since my mom didn't know how to spell it she named me Mailyn (bcuz that's how it sounds in spanish). when she was growing up there were a lot of chinese from the mainland living there and she fell in love with their culture back then. I guess she passed it on to me cuz I can honestly say I'm nuts about Asia (yeah, the entire continent lol)

okies enough 4 now, if someone could please respond I would be very greatful.

oh and to the guy that said we don't abbreviate tomorrow...yeah we do, it's 2morrow
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Good, intelligent questions!

technolickingkitty wrote:

1.I've heard (quite a few times) that non-japanese in Japan are racist in the way they refer to non-japanese, especially those that are living/working in Japan. ... supposing this is true, why would they do that? especially when they take offense when others use derogatory terms against them? and if it's just for fun, is it not still hurting the people you are talking about?

It's a classic case of ethnocentrism. Here's the definition:
http://www.iupui.edu/~anthkb/ethnocen.htm

technolickingkitty wrote:

2.I have always refered to anything and everything in/or from Asia as asian since I figure that's what the place is called and not Orient. Is this considered wrong? should asian (ie asian lamp, asian rug) not be used?

I believe you can use the word "asian" in anything, so your examples are technically correct. However, the use of the word "oriental" is what's up for debate. From what I've been told, oriental is not used to reference people because oriental is not a religion, race, nationality, etc. Matter of fact, the region referred to as "the Orient" even includes North Africa and the Middle East. Reference: http://i-cias.com/e.o/orient.htm

--- groink

groink wrote:

Good, intelligent questions! --- groink

thanks! I really liked the article on ethnocentrism. I didn't think of it that way. Actually, when people told me about the way they were treated I must confess I never believed them bcuz I always thought of Japanese people as very proper (you know, with all the etiquette they have) and I figured my friends were just being ignorant not trying to adapt to their rules. I have some friends from India and HK and I try to act the way they act so as not to offend anyone bcuz I know not everyone thinks like me...and thank god for that or we'd all be crazy! lol
and the good thing is that, while it's always hard to adapt to other races/countries rules, you come out a better person learning something new everyday....besides, it's so much fun!!!
no if only I could learn all these languages ...
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Koji wrote:

With the guy above. At least for me if it is not said or spelled out then it is o.k . J does not necisserily mean "jap", it means japanese to me. As long as "jap" is not specifically said or written then it is cool with me. By the way, whom is from San Diego.. Single and Female?? Lets hook it up hahahaha j/k Koji

Hahahhahahaaaha lol. I'm in the same boat as you. I guess we gotta go to the Japanese market in San Diego...I think it's called mitsuwa? Oh well, when I go to SDSU I know where all the Japanese hang out woo hooo!

personally, I don't like anyone calling me an oriental. i rather they call me Asian,

a girl from college i know (she is half japanese and half white) told me that when she visits her mom in hawaii its ok if she says "wow look at that oriental plate" but its not ok to say "wow look at that oriental person"

so she tought me that 'oriental' its ok if u refer to antiques or furniture and stuff.. but its not ok to refer to ppl or a race as that...? is that correct?

lovelessemotion wrote:

[...]when she visits her mom in hawaii its ok if she says "wow look at that oriental plate" but its not ok to say "wow look at that oriental person" so she tought me that 'oriental' its ok if u refer to antiques or furniture and stuff.. but its not ok to refer to ppl or a race as that...? is that correct?

It's certainly correct for Hawaii, and indeed for the rest of the US.

It's not so clear cut in the UK where 'asian' does not generally include Japan / China etc.

can u explain further? that sounds interesting to me... i'm ultraserious.. PLEASE!?!!?!