Romy wrote:

Yes I would ask the same question. They found the swords, so they should also have found the bones of him.

Yup... I read that it takes temps of 1600F-1800F to break down bones... And that requires a furnace.

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But then, maybe they just meant by "he was never found", that they are just not sure, if it really were Nobunaga�Ls bones? Because, they had no Criminal Investigation back then?

LOL, no CSI back then.

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Today, they could make an genetic test, but they did�Lt conserves these bones, I suppose?

I guess not... And they'd need something to compare it to, huh?

The way I see the Honnoji scene: somewhere after the Ranmaru scene, it transitions to Gou's bad dream (where she hears Nobunaga saying his last words) that she wakes up and tells Ieyasu about the black omen.

bmwracer wrote:

And they'd need something to compare it to, huh?

An descendant! This figure skater ... Nobunari Oda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobunari_Oda

Romy wrote:

An descendant! This figure skater ... Nobunari Oda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobunari_Oda

LOL.

The comparison is in the wrong direction.

yanie_chan wrote:

Really? Never seen that depicted in any TV/movie adaptations so far, though Did you find written theories on that?

I don't think it's been depicted in any of the dramas I've watched, either. Just an impression of mine, that's all. In some adaptions, I remember Hideyoshi asking Nene's permission, and in Komyo, Chiyo at one point encourages Kazutoyo to take a concubine. So I thought there would be some kind of formalities, and just not a random "Hey Chacha, I choose you!...to be my concubine." Maybe I've been influenced by the Chinese culture, because such ceremony did exist when a man took a concubine.

yanie_chan wrote:

Which site did you read? According to the JP Wiki page of Hoshina Masayuki: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/�ۉȐ��V He was born at the home of Takeda Shingen's daughter. And then 6 years later, due to Takeda's daughter's relation, the boy was managed to be the adoptive son of one of Takeda Shingen's vassal, Hoshina. It was Takeda's daughter who brought the boy to the Hoshina clan. You've watched AOI-Tokugawa Sandai yourself right? Hidetada sent pregnant-Shizu away from the castle. Since I was curious on how true this adaptation is, I was checking everywhere about Hidetada-Shizu-Hoshina Masayuki's historical facts, to match it up, and AOI was really faithful to the written history. AOI is really the most historically accurate adaptation to date, imho^^

You're right. I was reading Shizu's wiki entry instead of Masayuki's, and it has much less information. But it does mention that she moved to Kensho-in's shortly after pregancy (I skipped that line completely last night, that's what reading at 3am would do to me XD). If she had to be "hidden away" like that...how did she get the title sokushitsu, I wonder.

I needa watch AOI again, seriously.

BTW "Kensho-in �����@" confused me at first...because that's exactly the same name Chiyo got after Yamauchi Kazutoyo's death.

yanie_chan wrote:

Chacha is really a different kind of concubine, huh? Usually daughter of a daimyou like her should be a wife of another lord. Concubines are usually palace maids or women with the lower-level background, right? I wonder why did Chacha(the real person) decide to become Hideyoshi's concubine, after everything he did to her parents? XD But oh well, that's another discussion. Maybe later when the taiga reached around Ep19, hehe.

I guess that's why in some adaptations Chacha accepts being a concubine in order to find a chance to avenge her parents. But yes, she was probably one of a few exceptions where a daimyo's daughter became a sokushitsu ���� instead of a seishitsu ����.

Sometimes I wish the episodes air quicker than once a week...but since I'm doing the subs, I hope not, lol.

Liubeibei wrote:

Sometimes I wish the episodes air quicker than once a week...but since I'm doing the subs, I hope not, lol.

YES... We don't want you overworked to the point where you'd give up subbing the Taiga...

Liubeibei wrote:

The way I see the Honnoji scene: somewhere after the Ranmaru scene, it transitions to Gou's bad dream (where she hears Nobunaga saying his last words) that she wakes up and tells Ieyasu about the black omen.

I thought that might have been the intention, but maybe Gō's image turning around and disappearing brings the viewer back to Nobunaga's present instead of getting transfered into Gō's dream.

7th-key wrote:

I thought that might have been the intention, but maybe Gō's image turning around and disappearing brings the viewer back to Nobunaga's present instead of getting transfered into Gō's dream.

I thought that scene was a bit odd: she didn't say anything... Just smiled and turned around...

bmwracer wrote:

YES... We don't want you overworked to the point where you'd give up subbing the Taiga...

LOL true that XD.

About Oda Nobunari, he's said to be the decendant of Nobunaga's 7th son, Nobutaka (�M��), note that this is not the 3rd son Nobutaka (�M�F) in the drama.

So...is Nobunari's slogan "Tenka Fu-skate"?

Liubeibei wrote:

So...is Nobuari's slogan "Tenka Fu-skate"?

Whatever works.

bmwracer wrote:

I thought that scene was a bit odd: she didn't say anything... Just smiled and turned around...

Maybe it's just me, because I don't seem to say anything in my own dreams. That's why I got the impression that particular scene is in Gou's dream, lol.

Liubeibei wrote:

Maybe it's just me, because I don't seem to say anything in my own dreams. That's why I got the impression that particular scene is in Gou's dream, lol.

Hmm... That's an interesting observation.

Maybe the director and/or writer planned this to elicit metaphysical discussions...

bmwracer wrote:

Credit: Baidu

waww, adult Gou

Liubeibei wrote:

So...is Nobunari's slogan "Tenka Fu-skate"?

7th-key wrote:

I thought that might have been the intention, but maybe Gō's image turning around and disappearing brings the viewer back to Nobunaga's present instead of getting transfered into Gō's dream.

that what i thought too ...

bmwracer wrote:

will the DVD release soon?

can't wait for the OST ...

^ I think a fan designed that... It's a long way before the DVDs show up.

bmwracer wrote:

The comparison is in the wrong direction.

Liubeibei wrote:

So...is Nobunari's slogan "Tenka Fu-skate"?

I can�Lt wait for the DVD release too! I want it! Are they going to publish Specials on the DVD too? Like the crank-up of the cast member and behind-the-scene material?

ingesz wrote:

sou ka...seems like his not a good man

Ieyasu? He probably is not, he's a ruler afterall, there must be some demon-side of him. But reading some historical facts, I assume that Chacha is not really a nice lady either, and so I understand why most adaptation would portray her as a despicable woman.

ingesz wrote:

Poor Gou just to be the 2nd choice,

2nd choice? What do you mean?

bmwracer wrote:

How come you don't like him?

Etsushi Toyokawa's acting performances were always the same from one character to another character. In fact, I don't see Nobunaga in GOU. But I see Otcho of the 20th Century Boys, lost in the Sengoku era XD
Thanks to Etsushi, I... who used to admire Nobunaga, come to have this dislike feeling for Nobunaga I might have to watch Sorimachi Takashi's Nobunaga again to recover my image of Nobunaga >_<
Then again, maybe it's just me who have a problem with Etsushi. But apparently I have some friends who dislikes his acting too.

Though I have to admit, Etsushi's acting as Nobunaga in Ep1 might be horrible, but he improved in Ep2-3, well... mediocre at best, imho.

bmwracer wrote:

Or like I said, maybe you guys are seeing more than what's actually there... That might be a carry over from other dramas involving Go and Nobunaga...

First of all, I haven't watch any other adaptation that depicts Gou-Nobunaga's close relationship besides GOU. In fact, in other adaptations, Gou almost didn't appear at all XD
Second of all, I dislike Etsushi and I don't think Etsushi-Juri look good at all, so I'm afraid I'm not simply seeing what I want to see. I don't want to see any romance between Etsushi-Juri (yuk!). But the way I see it, the horse-riding scene was a bit too much, with all the hazy picture, the way Gou looked back in slow motion, and the "ting-a-ling" sound effects. That's not father and daughter scene, imho. I would say, Ieyasu-Gou's scenes are father-daughterly, but definitely not that Gou-Nobunaga's scene.
When I said "romantic" the first time in D-A, I didn't mean the Gou-Nobunaga relationship, but the "scene itself". It was too much for an uncle-niece scene. Then, after I read that news article which mentions Nobunaga as Gou's first love, I started to suspect that that's really the director's intention

ingesz wrote:

anyway what is "2ch" ??

Japanese most popular discussion board^^ You know the Densha Otoko story? The real "densha otoko" and his net friends were members of the 2ch board^^

ingesz wrote:

but i still hope Juri-Mukai will be the best couple in this Drama

I hope so too!! I have faith in them! But, of course, Juri-Tamaki is very tough to beat XD

bmwracer wrote:

Credit: Baidu

Hwaaaaa.... I'm dying to see adult Gou!!!*v* Is there any clip of this?
Btw, according to reports from the staff in 2ch, they are currently shooting Ep14-18 simultaneously.
Keep waiting for Mukai to crank-in, but it seem still so far away. The chibi-Hidetada haven't even start shooting yet

Liubeibei wrote:

Maybe it's just me, because I don't seem to say anything in my own dreams. That's why I got the impression that particular scene is in Gou's dream, lol.

Nice theory there about the dream transition^^ But I really talk alot in my own dreams, lol, is it just me? I even talk in Japanese with English subtitles in my dreams
_________________

"Let's create a world without war together"

yanie_chan wrote:

bmwracer wrote: How come you don't like him? Etsushi Toyokawa's acting performances were always the same from one character to another character. In fact, I don't see Nobunaga in GOU. But I see Otcho of the 20th Century Boys, lost in the Sengoku era XD Thanks to Etsushi, I... who used to admire Nobunaga, come to have this dislike feeling for Nobunaga I might have to watch Sorimachi Takashi's Nobunaga again to recover my image of Nobunaga >_< Then again, maybe it's just me who have a problem with Etsushi. But apparently I have some friends who dislikes his acting too. Though I have to admit, Etsushi's acting as Nobunaga in Ep1 might be horrible, but he improved in Ep2-3, well... mediocre at best, imho.

So ka.

Can't say that I've seen him in any other dramas or films, so I can't really judge... He does seem really intense, but I don't know how he is outside of acting.

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bmwracer wrote: Or like I said, maybe you guys are seeing more than what's actually there... That might be a carry over from other dramas involving Go and Nobunaga... First of all, I haven't watch any other adaptation that depicts Gou-Nobunaga's close relationship besides GOU. In fact, in other adaptations, Gou almost didn't appear at all XD Second of all, I dislike Etsushi and I don't think Etsushi-Juri look good at all, so I'm afraid I'm not simply seeing what I want to see. I don't want to see any romance between Etsushi-Juri (yuk!). But the way I see it, the horse-riding scene was a bit too much, with all the hazy picture, the way Gou looked back in slow motion, and the "ting-a-ling" sound effects. That's not father and daughter scene, imho. I would say, Ieyasu-Gou's scenes are father-daughterly, but definitely not that Gou-Nobunaga's scene. When I said "romantic" the first time in D-A, I didn't mean the Gou-Nobunaga relationship, but the "scene itself". It was too much for an uncle-niece scene. Then, after I read that news article which mentions Nobunaga as Gou's first love, I started to suspect that that's really the director's intention

LOL.

I interpreted the soft-focus horse riding scene as dreamlike or otherworldly, but I didn't see anything more than a really close father-daughter relationship.

I think the term "first love" is misleading... Maybe "first crush" would be more fitting...

On the other hand, maybe I'm being too old-fashioned and can't believe that a semi-incestuous relationship could exist...

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bmwracer wrote: Credit: Baidu Hwaaaaa.... I'm dying to see adult Gou!!!*v* Is there any clip of this?

Not that I've seen... I just luckily found that pic searching through Baidu.

Maybe there will be some more stuff later.

yanie_chan wrote:

2nd choice? What do you mean?

i mean substitute, thus she become the 2nd choice for Hideyoshi to make her Hidetada's wive

yanie_chan wrote:

Japanese most popular discussion board^^ You know the Densha Otoko story? The real "densha otoko" and his net friends were members of the 2ch board^^

bmwracer wrote:

^ I think a fan designed that... It's a long way before the DVDs show up.

we all have different views about this drama, and that's make it very interest to discussed