Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 1888 Location: Bunkyo-ku Country:
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:52 am Post subject:
Just re-reading the novel (GOU by Tabuchi Kumiko) again, there's an interesting scene that might be shown in Ep15-16:
Click on button to reveal/hide spoiler:
Hideyoshi gathered all of his teenage adopted sons and daughters in one hall, including Hidetsugu, Hidekatsu(NOT the 2nd husband), Hideie, the 3 sisters, Hideyasu and more. O-ne is in charge of their education. I like how Gou said, "Yayakoshii(how confusing)... Too much names starts with 'Hide'..." LOL, I laughed at that line.
So, as far as I read, there are 3 Hidekatsu-s??
1. Hidekatsu, Hideyoshi's birth son from a concubine, but later died as a baby.
2. Hidekatsu, Nobunaga's 4th son, Hideyoshi's adopted son, but then later died.
3. Hidekatsu, Hideyoshi's nephew later adopted as well; Gou's 2nd husband.
Wow, just how much does he love Hidekatsu's name?? XD yayakoshii
I wonder if the other 2 Hidekatsu-s will appear in the drama^^
Oh, and I just realized that Hideyasu (Ieyasu's 2nd son) is historically stated of not having good looks. So that's why they casted the comedian to play the role? XD Aww, too bad, Hideyasu in AOI-Tokugawa was quite kakkoii na no ni.... (I was expecting someone like Kaname Jun to play Hideyasu's role in GOU, lol) _________________
Joined: 19 Jan 2011 Posts: 149 Location: Houston, TX Country:
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:39 am Post subject:
yanie_chan wrote:
Just re-reading the novel (GOU by Tabuchi Kumiko) again, there's an interesting scene that might be shown in Ep15-16:
Click on button to reveal/hide spoiler:
Hideyoshi gathered all of his teenage adopted sons and daughters in one hall, including Hidetsugu, Hidekatsu(NOT the 2nd husband), Hideie, the 3 sisters, Hideyasu and more. O-ne is in charge of their education. I like how Gou said, "Yayakoshii(how confusing)... Too much names starts with 'Hide'..." LOL, I laughed at that line.
So, as far as I read, there are 3 Hidekatsu-s??
1. Hidekatsu, Hideyoshi's birth son from a concubine, but later died as a baby.
2. Hidekatsu, Nobunaga's 4th son, Hideyoshi's adopted son, but then later died.
3. Hidekatsu, Hideyoshi's nephew later adopted as well; Gou's 2nd husband.
Wow, just how much does he love Hidekatsu's name?? XD yayakoshii
I wonder if the other 2 Hidekatsu-s will appear in the drama^^
Oh, and I just realized that Hideyasu (Ieyasu's 2nd son) is historically stated of not having good looks. So that's why they casted the comedian to play the role? XD Aww, too bad, Hideyasu in AOI-Tokugawa was quite kakkoii na no ni.... (I was expecting someone like Kaname Jun to play Hideyasu's role in GOU, lol)
By Hideie do you mean Ukita Hideie?
O-Ne is such a busy lady. When you said about educating the young ones, The people who first came to my mind were Fukushima Masanori, Kato Kiyomasa, among others...but then I realized those ones were already grown-ups by Shizugatake.
The first Hidekatsu is already dead (1576 at age 5-6), and I douth Nobunaga's 4th son Hidekatsu is gonna be in this drama, because he would've been in the episode where Hideyoshi held the funeral for Nobunaga (he was the representative of Nobunaga's family), besides, he didn't live long after that. We'll see though, since he doesn't die until 1586, 2 years from where the drama is right now.
Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 1888 Location: Bunkyo-ku Country:
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:22 pm Post subject:
Liubeibei wrote:
By Hideie do you mean Ukita Hideie?
Yup. There's another adopted son I forgot to mention, Hideaki. Don't know whose birthson he is, though.
Liubeibei wrote:
O-Ne is such a busy lady. When you said about educating the young ones, The people who first came to my mind were Fukushima Masanori, Kato Kiyomasa, among others...but then I realized those ones were already grown-ups by Shizugatake.
Kato Kiyomasa... I hope he appears in the drama^^
Liubeibei wrote:
The first Hidekatsu is already dead (1576 at age 5-6), and I douth Nobunaga's 4th son Hidekatsu is gonna be in this drama, because he would've been in the episode where Hideyoshi held the funeral for Nobunaga (he was the representative of Nobunaga's family), besides, he didn't live long after that. We'll see though, since he doesn't die until 1586, 2 years from where the drama is right now.
Since he appeared in the novel (no dialogues, though). I'm quite positive he'll make a short appearance as well in the drama.
ingesz wrote:
could anyone tell me about SAJI KAZUNARI personal life, such as his wifes and concubine, before and after married with Gou...? onegaishimasu
Saji Kazunari is the first son of Saji Nobukata and Lady Inu (Oinu-no-kata). Lady Inu is said to be Nobunaga's favorite younger sister besides Lady Ichi. Nobukata died in a battle when Kazunari was only five. He immediately became the successor of the Saji clan, then.
Thanks to ingesz, I found interesting facts regarding Gou and Saji Kazunari's marriage. The divorce details was apparently found together with the historical records that Kazunari was banished from the Ono castle, right after Hideyoshi won the Komaki-Nagakute battle (that will soon happen in tomorrow night's episode ).
HOWEVER, there was never any records of WHEN and WHY Gou was married to Saji Kazunari. Apparently, the prediction that Gou was married to Kazunari just a few months before Komaki battle, and that it was arranged by Hideyoshi, was ONLY A THEORY, the most common theory.
In 2010, there had been debates between the historians of WHEN and WHY Gou got married to Saji Kazunari, including arguments that it might only be an engagement, and that they never really got married at all. One of the recent theory says that after Nobukata's(Kazunari's father) death, Oda Nobunaga arranged Lady Inu to marry another person, so he needed another marriage to strengthen an alliance with the Saji clan, and so Gou was married/engaged to Saji Kazunari when she was 1 year old (1574), arranged by Nobunaga.
After the Komaki battle, Saji Kazunari escaped and asked help to his uncle, Oda Nobukane at Ise-Ueno. Not long after, Nobukane arranged him to marry Nobunaga's daughter, ���U(Oshin?). He had 1 son from Oshin. No concubines. Hmm... seem like quite a sabishii life, after the Komaki battle XD
According to Gou's wiki page, a history book I have "101 Mysteries of Ogou & Tokugawa Hidetada", and a TV show titled "Sengoku & Bakumatsu Mystery", Gou and Saji Kazunari actually had 2 daughters. WIKI stated their names as Kita and Nui. The "101" book explains that this is a theory circulated among the people of Aichi prefecture (where Ono castle was at), that Gou and Kazunari were separated 5 years after the Komaki battle, and Gou had to leave her daughters in Saji clan. The first daughter, Kita, having lost her mother, was so depressed that she commited suicide. Their 2nd daughter lived a secluded life at Kyoto.
If this is true, then Gou had given birth to a roundup total of 10 babies However, zannen, there's no strong evidence for this theory.
According to Hira Takehiro, the actor who plays Saji Kazunari, there had been talks with the producer that since Saji Kazunari never died in battle and live on for quite a long time, he might appear again in Episode 40s _________________
"Let's create a world without war together"
Last edited by yanie_chan on Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:52 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 30 Jan 2009 Posts: 409 Location: lombok island Country:
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:17 pm Post subject:
yanie_chan wrote:
Saji Kazunari is the first son of Saji Nobukata and Lady Inu (Oinu-no-kata). Lady Inu is said to be Nobunaga's favorite younger sister besides Lady Ichi. Nobukata died in a battle when Kazunari was only five. He immediately became the successor of the Saji clan, then.
Thanks to ingesz, I found interesting facts regarding Gou and Saji Kazunari's marriage. The divorce details was apparently found together with the historical records that Kazunari was banished from the Ono castle, right after Hideyoshi won the Komaki-Nagakute battle (that will soon happen in tomorrow night's episode ).
HOWEVER, there was never any records of WHEN and WHY Gou was married to Saji Kazunari. Apparently, the prediction that Gou was married to Kazunari just a few months before Komaki battle, and that it was arranged by Hideyoshi, was ONLY A THEORY, the most popular theory.
In 2010, there had been debates between the historians of WHEN and WHY Gou got married to Saji Kazunari, including arguments that it might only be an engagement, and that they never really got married at all. One of the recent theory says that after Nobukata's(Kazunari's father) death, Oda Nobunaga arranged Lady Inu to marry another person, so he needed another marriage to strengthen an alliance with the Saji clan, and so Gou was married/engaged to Saji Kazunari when she was 1 year old (1574), arranged by Nobunaga.
After the Komaki battle, Saji Kazunari escaped and asked help to his uncle, Oda Nobukane at Ise-Ueno. Not long after, Nobukane arranged him to marry Nobunaga's daughter, ���U(Oshin?). He had 1 son from Oshin. No concubines. Hmm... seem like quite a sabishii life, after the Komaki battle XD
According to Gou's wiki page, a history book I have "101 Mysteries of Ogou & Tokugawa Hidetada", and a TV show titled "Sengoku & Bakumatsu Mystery", Gou and Saji Kazunari actually had 2 daughters. WIKI stated their names as Kita and Nui. The "101" book explains that this is a theory circulated among the people of Aichi prefecture (where Ono castle was at), that Gou and Kazunari were separated 5 years after the Komaki battle, and Gou had to leave her daughters in Saji clan. The first daughter, Kita, having lost her mother, was so depressed that she commited suicide. Their 2nd daughter lived a secluded life at Kyoto.
If this is true, then Gou had given birth to a roundup total of 10 babies However, zannen, there's no strong evidence for this theory.
According to Hira Takehiro, the actor who plays Saji Kazunari, there had been talks with the producer that since Saji Kazunari never died in battle and live on for quite a long time, he might appear again in Episode 40s
waaww, thanks so much Yanie-chan
yasashii hito always get sabishii life ...
so Saji Kazunari and Gou were experience their 1st marriage
Joined: 19 Jan 2011 Posts: 149 Location: Houston, TX Country:
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:35 am Post subject:
Wow so this drama is gonna make them separated much earlier than the Aichi theory suggests? Looks like no 2 kids in the drama.
yanie_chan wrote:
Yup. There's another adopted son I forgot to mention, Hideaki. Don't know whose birthson he is, though.
Hideaki, I assume this is Kobayakawa Hideaki in the future, the arguably most important person in the Battle of Sekigahara? He is the 5th son of Kinoshita Iesada (O-Ne's brother). Later adopted by Hideyoshi, and then Kobayawaka Takakage.
^ I seem to remember Liubeibei commenting that he chose to make an exception for "Gou" and "O-ne" due to the similarity with the English words.
The TV-subbers though seem to be doing the exact opposite...
There was something in AOI about only 3 fingers of each hand touching the mat on certain occasions... Maybe we'll get some etiquette insight with Gou's children.
Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 1888 Location: Bunkyo-ku Country:
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:05 pm Post subject:
Wa, wa, wa!!! Ep14 was one of the best episode if not the best!!!
But I absolutely need subs for this one!!
Click on button to reveal/hide spoiler:
-Osaka castle!! Wow, sugoi!!! A BED and CHAIR in Hideyoshi's room!!^v^
-Hidetsugu's appearance! More prominent character, yay! LOL, Hidetsugu resembles Hideyoshi so much! Great casting! Can't wait 'till all Hideyoshi's adopted sons gathers^^
-Hideyoshi is acting more and more like a villain! How can there be a romance between Chacha and him later?? XD arienai~
-Don't know how important is Saji Kazunari's suigun(naval force) for this battle in the real historical records, but the battle and Gou's marriage story fits in perfectly!! This plot really works! I guess, as Gou and the sisters grown up, none of the plot had to be pushed anymore.
-And what's best is... Gou and Saji Kazunari's almost-kisu scene!! Kyaaaaa~~ Kazunari-sama, how could you... she's just 11 yrs old!!
Kazunari: Atama ageyou, Gou... (lift up your head) *serious eyes*
Gou: Agerarenu.... (I can't) *but slowly look up to him*
They gazed deeply into each other's eyes. But then Yoshi came!! And Kazunari immediately stand further than Gou, and the two acted awkwardly.
Aaargh, dammit, Yoshi! You came at a bad time! Or else Gou would get her first kiss!! heehee... or maybe it's just my wishful thinking. But Kazunari's eyes were really like he's ready to eat her
Actually, I was about to be in tears in the last scene, the flashback with Kazunari was touching. But since Hideyoshi acted like a clown, I couldn't cry, neither could I laugh... I went like this -_-
Next week's preview!!! Naniiii!! Gou to Hideyoshi ga.... masaka
Dammit, 1 week is too long!!!
Aww... just when we finally got a "hero", he only lasted for 1 episode again. (the last "hero" we had was Azai Nagamasa, considering Ichi was the leading character(heroine) in Ep1.) I was totally rooting for Gou-Kazunari... hiks, Kazunari-sama... saraba jya
Click on button to reveal/hide spoiler:
Anooo... since there's an almost-kisu scene with the 1st husband... (which was totally not in the novel)
May I wish for a Gou-Hidetada kisu scene in Ep30s???
Had there been kisu scenes in taiga drama, btw?? haha... I can only remember Nakama Yukie and Kamikawa Takaya kisu scene in the final episode of Komyo ga Tsuji, but that was also bcoz the husband was sick so Nakama had to give him water through her mouth, or sumthin' like that. While Chacha and Ono Harunaga kissing scenes in AOI, was too dark, I couldn't tell whether they really kiss or not
_________________
"Let's create a world without war together"
Last edited by yanie_chan on Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 19 Jan 2011 Posts: 149 Location: Houston, TX Country:
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:29 pm Post subject:
7th-key wrote:
^ I seem to remember Liubeibei commenting that he chose to make an exception for "Gou" and "O-ne" due to the similarity with the English words.
The TV-subbers though seem to be doing the exact opposite...
Thanks that's exactly why I chose to make these 2 exceptions (at least so far, maybe more in the future).
The down side of not using u's is that sometimes it's hard to distinguish some names. For example, in the earlier episodes where the Mori (�X) brothers and the Mori (�ї�, would've been Mouri) clan of Chugoku were mentioned regularly. In these cases, I try to add something that might help prevent confusion. In the Chugoku Mori case, I added (Terumoto), the head of the clan at the time.
For the TV subs, I wonder if Houshi ended up as Sanboushi?
Hideyoshi-Chacha (that scene! Chachaaa, nooo XD)
Takatsugu-Hatsu (awww, they're cute! Takatsugu is handsome!^^)
Hidekatsu-Gou (seem like Gou didn't had a good first impression on him, interesting^^) _________________
"Let's create a world without war together"
Last edited by yanie_chan on Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 19 Jan 2011 Posts: 149 Location: Houston, TX Country:
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject:
yanie_chan wrote:
Wa, wa, wa!!! Ep14 was one of the best episode if not the best!!!
But I absolutely need subs for this one!!
Click on button to reveal/hide spoiler:
-Osaka castle!! Wow, sugoi!!! A BED and CHAIR in Hideyoshi's room!!^v^
-Hidetsugu's appearance! More prominent character, yay! LOL, Hidetsugu resembles Hideyoshi so much! Great casting! Can't wait 'till all Hideyoshi's adopted sons gathers^^
-Hideyoshi is acting more and more like a villain! How can there be a romance between Chacha and him later?? XD arienai~
-Don't know how important is Saji Kazunari's suigun(naval force) for this battle in the real historical records, but the battle and Gou's marriage story fits in perfectly!! This plot really works! I guess, as Gou and the sisters grown up, none of the plot had to be pushed anymore.
-And what's best is... Gou and Saji Kazunari's almost-kisu scene!! Kyaaaaa~~ Kazunari-sama, how could you... she's just 11 yrs old!!
Kazunari: Atama ageyou, Gou... (lift up your head) *serious eyes*
Gou: Agerarenu.... (I can't) *but slowly look up to him*
They gazed deeply into each other's eyes. But then Yoshi came!! And Kazunari immediately stand further than Gou, and the two acted awkwardly.
Aaargh, dammit, Yoshi! You came at a bad time! Or else Gou would get her first kiss!! heehee... or maybe it's just my wishful thinking. But Kazunari's eyes were really like he's ready to eat her
Actually, I was about to be in tears in the last scene, the flashback with Kazunari was touching. But since Hideyoshi acted like a clown, I couldn't cry, neither could I laugh... I went like this -_-
Next week's preview!!! Naniiii!! Gou to Hideyoshi ga.... masaka
Dammit, 1 week is too long!!!
Aww... just when we finally got a "hero", he only lasted for 1 episode again. (the last "hero" we had was Azai Nagamasa, considering Ichi was the leading character(heroine) in Ep1.) I was totally rooting for Gou-Kazunari... hiks, Kazunari-sama... saraba jya
Click on button to reveal/hide spoiler:
Anooo... since there's an almost-kisu scene with the 1st husband... (which was totally not in the novel)
May I wish for a Gou-Hidetada kisu scene in Ep30s???
Had there been kisu scenes in taiga drama, btw?? haha... I can only remember Nakama Yukie and Kamikawa Takaya kisu scene in the final episode, but that was also bcoz the husband was sick so Nakama had to give him water through her mouth, or sumthin' like that. While Chacha and Ono Harunaga kissing scenes in AOI, was too dark, I couldn't tell whether they really kiss or not
lol you sound like you just came back from Disneyland. And if you really need subs for this ep...that probably means it's not easy for me to translate huh? lol
The only kiss scene in a Taiga I can remember is the one you mentioned, AOI......omg.
So Kitamura Yukiya's debut is to screw up on the battlefield huh? (I haven't watched this ep yet).
Joined: 30 Jan 2009 Posts: 409 Location: lombok island Country:
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:42 pm Post subject:
yanie_chan wrote:
Wa, wa, wa!!! Ep14 was one of the best episode if not the best!!!
But I absolutely need subs for this one!!
Click on button to reveal/hide spoiler:
-Osaka castle!! Wow, sugoi!!! A BED and CHAIR in Hideyoshi's room!!^v^
-Hidetsugu's appearance! More prominent character, yay! LOL, Hidetsugu resembles Hideyoshi so much! Great casting! Can't wait 'till all Hideyoshi's adopted sons gathers^^
-Hideyoshi is acting more and more like a villain! How can there be a romance between Chacha and him later?? XD arienai~
-Don't know how important is Saji Kazunari's suigun(naval force) for this battle in the real historical records, but the battle and Gou's marriage story fits in perfectly!! This plot really works! I guess, as Gou and the sisters grown up, none of the plot had to be pushed anymore.
-And what's best is... Gou and Saji Kazunari's almost-kisu scene!! Kyaaaaa~~ Kazunari-sama, how could you... she's just 11 yrs old!!
Kazunari: Atama ageyou, Gou... (lift up your head) *serious eyes*
Gou: Agerarenu.... (I can't) *but slowly look up to him*
They gazed deeply into each other's eyes. But then Yoshi came!! And Kazunari immediately stand further than Gou, and the two acted awkwardly.
Aaargh, dammit, Yoshi! You came at a bad time! Or else Gou would get her first kiss!! heehee... or maybe it's just my wishful thinking. But Kazunari's eyes were really like he's ready to eat her
Actually, I was about to be in tears in the last scene, the flashback with Kazunari was touching. But since Hideyoshi acted like a clown, I couldn't cry, neither could I laugh... I went like this -_-
Next week's preview!!! Naniiii!! Gou to Hideyoshi ga.... masaka
Dammit, 1 week is too long!!!
Aww... just when we finally got a "hero", he only lasted for 1 episode again. (the last "hero" we had was Azai Nagamasa, considering Ichi was the leading character(heroine) in Ep1.) I was totally rooting for Gou-Kazunari... hiks, Kazunari-sama... saraba jya
Click on button to reveal/hide spoiler:
Anooo... since there's an almost-kisu scene with the 1st husband... (which was totally not in the novel)
May I wish for a Gou-Hidetada kisu scene in Ep30s???
Had there been kisu scenes in taiga drama, btw?? haha... I can only remember Nakama Yukie and Kamikawa Takaya kisu scene in the final episode, but that was also bcoz the husband was sick so Nakama had to give him water through her mouth, or sumthin' like that. While Chacha and Ono Harunaga kissing scenes in AOI, was too dark, I couldn't tell whether they really kiss or not
awwwwww..... it's sound very very very interesting.... can't wait for episode 14 torrent
Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 1888 Location: Bunkyo-ku Country:
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject:
Liubeibei wrote:
lol you sound like you just came back from Disneyland. And if you really need subs for this ep...that probably means it's not easy for me to translate huh? lol
Absolutely not. As long as you have the script, I'm sure you'll do fine. Ganbatte nee!
Liubeibei wrote:
So Kitamura Yukiya's debut is to screw up on the battlefield huh? (I haven't watched this ep yet).
Yup, a good-for-nothing man since the beginning, lol.
Azai Nagamasa's twitter:
�yNHK��́^�]�z�]�c�@���̊Ԃ̉œ��肶������̂��c�@���V������ɂ߂Ă���B��ςȐ��̒����Ⴊ�A���B�搶���Đ��������̂���B�c�������A���낻�냏�V�̑��݂����Ȃ��B�̋L�����甖��A�c���V�����낻�뉩��̍�����Ԃ₭�̂͏I���ɂ��悤���Ǝv���Ă���B����䒷����
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Gou... it was such a short marriage, nou... I feel pain in my heart too. My daughters, it's a tough world, but you have to keep on living. ....However, seem like your memories on me has started to fade away. ....I'm thinking of ending my tweetting from this realm (of the dead).
Somehow I can hear tweet replies from everyone already... Anyway, in this world, Ichi, Katsuie-dono and me are involved in a love triangle. We have our own problems too here... <Azai Nagamasa>
Mwahahahaha!! I love this guy! I hope he can appear again in some form XD _________________
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Can't wait 'till all Hideyoshi's adopted sons gathers^^
that's exactly why I chose to make these 2 exceptions (at least so far, maybe more in the future).
