amrayu wrote:

im noticing the blinking throughout the clip as well. also certain colors don't capture as well onto a pc (for example. red, pink, bright green). So thats why the pink font bleeds a little.

I'm going to try something different. I have a video/audio conversion box that I think will clean up the video signal. It is a Canopus ADVC-100 analog/digital converter. It has composite video/audio IN, and S-video OUT. I usually use this box to feed VHS and laser disc video/audio to iMovie to trick my Macintosh into thinking the video coming in is actually a DV camcorder. I'm going to experiment with this box to see if it makes any improvement. I'm using good shielded cables, so I don't think they're contributing to my flickering problem.

Here's a link to the Canopus web site:

http://www.canopus.com/US/products/advc-100/pm_advc-100.asp

--- groink

hmm, i've experienced flickering problems before when i captured some stuff from PAL tapes. in my case it was because of the VCR, since it had to output the signal to NTSC format then to the computer for digitizing.

hopefully your digital convertor can clean the picture up. too bad theres no dvd version of under the same roof, so you don't need to capture it from the laser discs.

im pretty sure that in the end itll look subarashii (wonderful) though.
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ugh!! you were using ATI software to cap? when i read that, i knew where i remembered the flickering from. My friend has an ATI cap card and uses the capping software, and he had SOOO much flickering. i think ATI software/drivers/support suck in general (from hearing all the complaining from my friend).
good thing that you fixed the problem!!!
everything should be smooth from now on. (::crosses fingers:

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Go for it Groink. I want to see the serie so bad.

amrayu wrote:

ugh!! you were using ATI software to cap? when i read that, i knew where i remembered the flickering from. My friend has an ATI cap card and uses the capping software, and he had SOOO much flickering. i think ATI software/drivers/support suck in general (from hearing all the complaining from my friend). good thing that you fixed the problem!!! everything should be smooth from now on. (::crosses fingers:

GRRRRRR! Still flickering! Even with the DV input. Yup, it is definitely the laser disc itself. It's nothing to do with PAL because the laser disc package says it is NTSC. I guess we have higher expectations of laser disc quality than what it offers. We're so spoiled because of DVD! But you're right on the ATI stuff... It gags!!!!

Overall, the video still looks a heck of a lot better than the existing captures out there, so I'm going to stick with the project and work with what I have. Continue to make comments on the project, especially if you have any advice on what I can do to improve things (software, hardware, etc.)

--- groink

groink wrote:

GRRRRRR! Still flickering! Even with the DV input. Yup, it is definitely the laser disc itself. It's nothing to do with PAL because the laser disc package says it is NTSC. I guess we have higher expectations of laser disc quality than what it offers.

Researching on the web, I found the following FAQ:

http://www.cs.tut.fi/~leopold/Ld/FAQ/Hardware.html#ComplaintsAliasing

What I'm thinking is that seeing laser disc has a much lower frequency in terms of scan lines, maybe I'm capturing the video too quickly. There probably is such a thing! This will more likely require me to drop the frequency, losing quality on the raw capture which I was trying to avoid to begin with. The DV capturing software doesn't leave me with any customization options to control the speed of the scan lines.

Time for more experimentation!!!!

--- groink

Downloadin the footages Will let you know my view of it.

hey groink, i skimmed that article you posted. seems like it is the lines of resolution that the laser disc has? and something about interlacing i think.
yah, but there is something off about the LD-to computer process.
i hope you solve the flickering problem, can cause some people to faint if they watch it too much (like how children fainted in japan, cuz they watched too much of pikachu and his lightning tricks on tv)
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Just finshing watching the demo #2. There are still some flickering... but it's not as bad if I'm standing far from my monitor.

The caption is good, a bit blurry though. I was wondering if it's possible to put the english subtitle at the bottom (Under the Japanese)? That way we can get more picture without the subtitle blocking it.

And also... a personally request.... um... if it's not much of a problem.. can u please change the Titile from "Our House" to "Under the Same Roof"?

Smiley_18 wrote:

Just finshing watching the demo #2. There are still some flickering... but it's not as bad if I'm standing far from my monitor.

Still bad though! When I get home later tonight, I'll do some more research into the interlacing speed issues. Man I hate legacy technology!!!! *smirk*

Quote:

The caption is good, a bit blurry though. I was wondering if it's possible to put the english subtitle at the bottom (Under the Japanese)? That way we can get more picture without the subtitle blocking it.

That test was actually a regular VCD rip from the DVD HQ original I posted earlier. That is what's causing the subtitles to blur a little. I think when I rip them to SVCD (480x480), they'll come out a lot clearer. I think I have a good font (Verdana), I just need to mess more with the shadowing and outlining settings.

Quote:

And also... a personally request.... um... if it's not much of a problem.. can u please change the Titile from "Our House" to "Under the Same Roof"?

Yeah, yeah yeah... Hehehe!!! I guess for most people they know the series as "Under the Same Roof", so I'll more likely use that name. I'm wondering why the series have two completely different names? Just curious.

--- groink

You can distribute it via Bitorrent

Well, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the laser discs themselves are tainted with the flickering problem. Even connecting the player to TV and playing the disc has the flickering problem. I don't think it is the player itself because I have a bunch of other laser discs, and I don't see the same flickering problem as I do with UTSF.

Sooooooooo... With the samplings that I've posted as examples, is the fickering going to pose a big problem? Should I continue the project with this problem lingering? I don't want to continue if people aren't going to appreciate the results. I need feedback from the jdorama community.

Man I'm really bummed out!!!!

--- groink

I actually don't really mind the flickering that much. It was bad in the beginning of the demo, but later it was okay. So I think you should go ahead. Good Luck! p(^^)q

hey groink!
might be a problem since they are japanese laser discs? unless you have other japanese laser discs, then that throws my theory out the window.

the flickering doesn't really bother me, like smiley said its only bad when it first started in the beginning. it probably goes away gradually?

but you should go ahead with the project. i know a lot of people would like to see it done.
Ganbare!!!
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The other laser discs I tested were my Sakai Noriko discs, which coincidentally were also made by Pioneer, the same manufacturers that made the UTSF discs. It would have been an issue if the discs were in PAL format, but they're in NTSC format.

Yeah, I'm going to go forward with the project!!!!! I'm right now playing around with the capture format... In that 139MB file, I captured the content straight to MPEG-2. However, while I was researching the flickering issue, I also came across some information that is leaning more towards capturing the content to DV stream format. The disadvantage to DV stream is that the raw file is going to be HUUUUGE! We're talking about 15GB for 50-minute of raw content. *gag* But I think I'll stick with the MPEG-2 format for the raw captures. It looks just fine, even after applying the subtitles.

It's getting really interesting!!!!!! Thanks everyone for your input!!!

--- groink

groink: try capturing to avi format??? theres some good codecs out there that save disk space and look flawless (huffyuv, morgan). i myself use the morgan codec with my matrox card. that way you can do more filtering with the raw files. mpeg2 is already a compressed format so filtering is a little bit hard to do afterward. that way you can mess with the settings/filtering. and itll look flawless. but it does take up more space than mpeg2 (45-60 minutes = 5-6 GB, with medium settings)

also the dvdrhelp.com forums are really good. you should use the search function on that board to see if theres any answers to your problems. but you shouldnt post questions there, they are kind of mean.
i've used that search on that board many times, and usually i get my problems solved.
good luck in your quest!!!
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I've visited dvdrhelp.com quite a bit. Two problems:

Problem 1: The quantity of information I must absorb. There's just too much information. It seems like each article sort of contradicts each other. The authors are hard up on using really obscure tools and codecs. And most of all, the authors are too much into themselves!!! I just wish there were sites like these with more humble people. But, I guess when you're into techology and want people to see you as an authorative figure/expert, you must be a total a**hole. Just MHO...

Problem 2: Right now, I'm trying to define my issue, and THEN I can start searching for solutions. Is it an interlace issue? Is it a fps capture issue? Is it a filtering issue? Stuff like that... It's sort of like trying to treat a belly ache without actually knowing what the cause is, or even if it is a belly ache (could be your kidneys you're rubbing there).

The other thing I learned these past couple of days is that AVI is actually not a codec, but rather it is a container or a package. You can capture the content using whatever codec you like, and then package it as AVI. That's why when you're dealing with AVI, you run into things like i263, AC3, DiVX, etc., all of which are packaged into a file with a .AVI extension.

Also, with DV in a AVI package, you must choose between type-1 and type-2. I'm still trying to grasp that concept... It really boils down to exactly what software you're using for editing. In my case, I'm using my Canopus device, and the Canopus codec saves as DV type-1. Then, if you have video editing sw that can't read type-1, then you must convert the capture to type-2. I tell ya, it's a huge mess!!!! So the general rule of thumb is to lay out your entire software/hardware strategy, then research all of these compatibility issues.

Back to more experimenting...

--- groink

yah the dvdrhelp forums is useful if you know what you are looking for. i've spent hours there trying to get something that is related to my problem, sometimes its good, sometimes i find something else that goes against it. yah, the frequent users there arent really nice to anyone. its kind of sad..
it might be hard to define what kind of issue you have. what i usually do is search around to see if anyone else has a similar problem, usually do you then find some kind of solution if any.
but basically its gonna be a lot of experimenting!!!! trying this and trying that, just to see if the problem is fixed.
i hope you fix your problem. i'll read around to see if i find anything of use to you.

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Here's the latest on my project...

The flickering is definitely 100-percent on the laser disc copy itself. I had a friend of mine play the disc on his system, which is quite better than mine... Damnit it should be -- the audio cables connecting his speakers alone are over $100 each!!!

So is there a software solution??? I posted this question on another messageboard, and here's the explanation:

At first, I thought you had a cross-pulse problem, but you're discription doesn't sound anything like it. Just for the record, a cross-pluse is that fading and brightening that occurs when you try to copy most analog video.

My friend used to be in charge of doing it to all the vhs cassettes over at CBS Home Video and one day she forgot to turn the unit on. So if you got an early run of Star Trek 2 (I think that's what it was), you're in luck! (not that any of you care, of course.)

There's actually an easy way to get around the cross-pulse but it'll cost you a few thousands to do it. I actually figured it out by accident. DVD's are a little harder, a lot of them have Macromedia protection, but again, there's a way around that too...if you've got the bucks.

Unfortunately for you, what you have is a generation loss problem. Apparently the original video source for the laser disc mastering was probably not the actual beta master. It was probably a copy of it and with each successive copy between you and the master, the worse it looks. Sorry but there is not cure for this. Once it's there, it's there for good.

The flicker is more evident on your computer because it has better dpi and refresh rate than your tv. I'm sure it'll look even worse on a professional monitor.

Therefore, you aren't the problem, your laser disc is. But ideally, you should be importing via component...uncompressed, if your board supports it. I don't think ATI does, I know the AJA ,Kona, Mojo, and Meridian boards do but they start from a thousand (Meridians start from around $30k) and up. Firewire is ok but it compresses it 5:1. That's why when you blow the image up, there's a lot of aliasing going on along most of the edges.

There aren't any software filters that I know. But try getting another copy of the laser disc to make sure. Could have been a bad batch of discs or a bad burner, too.

Could be worse though, when you work with digital video you don't get these fine streaks, instead you get these little squares with mismatched color running across your screen. Or worse yet, thick horizontal bands of blue. At least with analog, the picture is still there and partially usable.


So with that, I'll stick with my current equipment. The flickering really isn't that bad... I went ahead and imported episode 1 into AVI/DV format via firewire. The 48-minute capture came out to about 10GB. Looks pretty good, and the color doesn't have as much red as the test captures.

Right now, I'm typing the English subtitles into a Word document and will start formatting them in sync with the video this weekend.

Overall, things are rolling along smoothly!!!!! Man, Sakai Noriko sure looked cute in 1993.

--- groink

Rats! While I was typing in the English subtitles, I discovered that NGN chopped out about 2 minutes or so of aired footage from the original. I don't blame them... It's the scene where Masaya is in the operating room observing a surgical procedure. One of the interns pass out in the OR after looking at the opened chest. Later on, Masaya eats a steak in front of the interns. The same intern sees the steak, then passes out. Kind of gross yet funny!!!! There's some dialog in the operating room and at the restaurant, but I don't think it adds any context to the overall drama, so that's probably why NGN bleeped it out.

Should I leave this scene in and have it un-subtitled? Should I cut the scene out like NGN did? Would someone be able to take this 2-minute footage and translate? So many choices!!!!!

Thanks!

--- groink