Nacho wrote:

what's your religion?

Roman Catholic. Loud and proud.

Recovering Roman Catholic.

Dazed and Confused.

Agnostic.

bmwracer wrote:

Agnostic.

ditto, same here. maybe a little shinto/bai sun. (HK way of honoring ancestors)
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Agnostics believe that God exists, though, right?

The Man wrote:

Agnostics believe that God exists, though, right?

agnostic people are people who would like to believe in a god (higher being), but not in anything in particular right now...
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niko2x wrote:

agnostic people are people who would like to believe in a god (higher being), but not in anything in particular right now...

As I understood it . . . agnostics believe that God exists, but, know that there is or can never be evidence of God's existence.

The Man wrote:

As I understood it . . . agnostics believe that God exists, but, know that there is or can never be evidence of God's existence.

actually, i usually don't like to talk/discuss about religion, because that is one subject that WILL start fights. not that i'll shy away from it and all, but i don't care to get into any more heated discussion about any religion. i figure you (just a figuritive you, the man) have you own belief, i have mine. i won't impose my thinking to you, so you stay the hell away from me.
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niko2x wrote:

actually, i usually don't like to talk/discuss about religion, because that is one subject that WILL start fights. not that i'll shy away from it and all, but i don't care to get into any more heated discussion about any religion. i figure you (just a figuritive you, the man) have you own belief, i have mine. i won't impose my thinking to you, so you stay the hell away from me.

Waitaminute, Niko2x . . . I'm not trying to be mean here. . My best friend doesn't believe in God or anything else; I'm asking all this to know more.

As I understand it, agnostics believe in God, but know that there can be no evidence to prove it. I think that's interesting (and I'm not trying to be condescending by saying that it's interesting).

I'm looking over my last two posts . . . and I'm still trying to figure out where I was deliberately being mean.

Because I can tell you in my heart and mind, that I was not trying to be that.

In a different thread, I said that I was glad "God" is in the Pledge of Allegiance. That's just my opinion; and does having that opinion ostracize me from wanting to learn about other religions?

The Man wrote:

Waitaminute, Niko2x . . . I'm not trying to be mean here. . My best friend doesn't believe in God or anything else; I'm asking all this to know more. As I understand it, agnostics believe in God, but know that there can be no evidence to prove it. I think that's interesting (and I'm not trying to be condescending by saying that it's interesting). I'm looking over my last two posts . . . and I'm still trying to figure out where I was deliberately being mean. Because I can tell you in my heart and mind, that I was not trying to be that. In a different thread, I said that I was glad "God" is in the Pledge of Allegiance. That's just my opinion; and does having that opinion ostracize me from wanting to learn about other religions?

dude, if i sounded like i was offended, i whole heartedly appologise. i didn't mean to come out so gruff. i just wanted to get the idea across that i have been some discussions before with religions that had turn into ugly fist fights. (but then again we were all drunk, so everything is cool).

but to answer your question, that is MY religion. it may or maynot be idealistically agnostic, but fairly on the right track, more so than those people who DON"T belive in god. i hope i have cleared my miscommunication and again, "eu sou pesaroso".
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Most people find my religion particulary strange. I belong to a religion called Church of Christ therefore in a sense I am Christian but not the type of Christian you would expect. For one thing I dont celebrate Christmas, Halloween, Valentine's Day, or St. Patricks day. I also don't believe in the holy trinity because we believe Jesus Christ was a man. Yes I know its hard to accept and strange to many. Just thought I'd add to the discussion.

I hope this doesn't change any of your guy's outlook on me

funny this comes up - i'm just now reading a collection of essays by daisetz t. suzuki on zen buddhism. hard stuff. funny thing about it - he urges practitioners not to intellectualize it, because that gets away from the whole idea. as for the whole idea - i'm still working on that.

No fights, no meanness, and no jokes.

I think of myself as an Agnostic.

And no, Agnostics don't "believe" in God.

I think the guys your thinking of are the Deists. Most of the Founding Fathers (Ben Franklin, Thomas Payne etc.) were Deists. They rejected all established religions, and the classic notions of God the Father sitting on a big throne. They believed in Reason and Nature, and said that those were the real supports for a believe in some kind of guiding presence out there in the cosmos.

Unlike Athiests, Agnostics don't declare that there is no God. We say that we don't know.

Maybe there's a God, maybe it's just Santa, maybe it really is a big turtle?!? Or just as likely, there's nothing. Who knows! It's a big universe.

Geezer wrote:

No fights, no meanness, and no jokes. I think of myself as an Agnostic. And no, Agnostics don't "believe" in God. I think the guys your thinking of are the Deists. Most of the Founding Fathers (Ben Franklin, Thomas Payne etc.) were Deists. They rejected all established religions, and the classic notions of God the Father sitting on a big throne. They believed in Reason and Nature, and said that those were the real supports for a believe in some kind of guiding presence out there in the cosmos. Unlike Athiests, Agnostics don't declare that there is no God. We say that we don't know. Maybe there's a God, maybe it's just Santa, maybe it really is a big turtle?!? Or just as likely, there's nothing. Who knows! It's a big universe.

I see.

Thank you for this answer, Geezer.

Hmm. I guess I gotta do more reading on the agnostic and/or atheist view.

And, offense here, but, I think either the dictionary and some other agnostics I know might want to change the definition that I've come to understand of them. (and, to be fair, the remainder of agnostics I know would agree with Geezer's "declar[ation] that there is no God. We say that we don't know.")

The Man wrote:

Agnostics believe that God exists, though, right?

Agnostics question the existence of God... One step away from not believing at all.

bmwracer wrote:

Agnostics question the existence of God... One step away from not believing at all.

that's always been my understanding. they're fence-straddlers. my dad is one - he says he can't say whether there is or there isn't.

Duneman wrote:

that's always been my understanding. they're fence-straddlers. my dad is one - he says he can't say whether there is or there isn't.

I wouldn't call it fence-stradling... I think it's more like "give me proof..."

Geezer wrote:

Unlike Athiests, Agnostics don't declare that there is no God.

I think that's a misconception about atheism.

Atheism originally was coined to mean: "without god". It is a lack of belief. An atheist simply does not believe in any god. That's not quite the same thing as asserting that "god does not exist". The latter is a specific belief, and is sometimes called "strong atheism" (or "positive" or "dogmatic").

A good explanation of the meaning of atheism and agnosticism can be found in the first chapter of "An Anthology of Atheism and Rationalism" by Gordon Stein.

"Agnosticism" as coined by Thomas Huxley in 1869 was actually more of an affirmation of Rationalism, but that is not really how the word is used today.

Nacho wrote:

thanks for the info. i'll check out the links. what type of buddhism does the Japanese pracitice?

Japanese practice all types, but most sects in Japan are along the lines of Pure Land and Zen. Since Japan got most of its Buddhist practices from China, it is more Mahayana style. Still, most Japanese don't believe in Buddhism per se, but more like the Chinese in a mixture of religions. As they say, the Japanese are born Shinto, and die Buddhist.

As for the agnosticism conversation, it doesn't matter what you label yourself, as you know what you believe. More on agnosticism on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism
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"...but it was my integrity that was important. Is that so selfish? It sells for so little, but it's all we have left in this place. It is the very last inch of us...but within that inch we are free." - V for Vendetta

I was involved in Religious Science (not Scientology, not Christian Science!) before I met my Toshi. She was a follower of Nichiren - Soka Gakkai, but left due to politics.
I recently discovered a Japanese version of Religious Science, Seicho no Ie. They seem very reasonable on paper, but I haven't been to a meeting yet.
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