Okay, when I read this article I got angry:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/08/20/film.memoirsofageisha.ap/index.html

There are three major Japanese female characters from the book:
Sayuri - The main character
Mameha - Sayuri's mentor
Hatsumomo - Sayuri's enemy


Chinese actresses have been cast for ALL three roles:
Sayuri - Zhang Ziyi
Mameha - Michelle Yeoh
Hatsumomo - Gong Li


Don't get me wrong, I happen to like all three of the actresses and own a large number of HK/Chinese DVDs. But to cast ALL of the roles with Chinese actresses and ignore large pool of talented Japanese actresses is so wrong.

To me, it sounds like they're casting based on what they think will sell best to the Chinese and American markets. The USA is very familiar with Zhang Ziyi because of Rush Hour 2 and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Similarly, Michelle Yeoh is also famed in the USA for Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, as well as internationally for her stint as a James Bond girl in Tomorrow Never Dies. By comparison, Gong Li is relatively unknown in the USA outside of the Chinese community.

Who would you have cast as Sayuri, Mameha, and Hatsumomo?

My picks:
Sayuri - Tanaka Rena
Mameha - Kuroki Hitomi
Hatsumomo - Matsushima Nanako


Note that if even one of these three roles had been cast with a nihonjin actresses, I'd not have minded. It's just that NONE of the three roles were, which is what I view as wrong.
-PCM

I am glad I am not the only person who felt that way after reading that.
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Yeah, I heard and read about this... So typical.

I guess after all these years, we still "all look alike."


I don't know about you, but I don't plan to see this movie at all.

Gosh, this is so sad. I mean how the hell ar you going to cast three Chinese women to portray people that are in a different race. I mean they are still stuck with the joke by Chris Tucker " All Asians look alike"!
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1) If they put together a decent script that stays honest to the book, then I'm delighted, and I'll be looking forward to the movie.

2) Casting three Chinese women in the main parts. Hey, at least they're casting Asians in the main parts. (And Watanabe Ken is in the movie.)

3) BMW's comment about Asians all looking alike. Yup. I think you should all wear name tags.

4) PC. Ever since "Raise the Red Lantern" Gong Li has been pretty well known. Even outside the Chinese community. (I'd venture to say more non Asian Americans know her work than know Zhang Ziyi's. And we can say Li's name!)

5) Who would I have chosen? Women with the best name and face recognition value I could find, in an effort to sell the movie. And face it... Japanese women do not rule the Japanese movie industry. Japanese TV, yes. But not Japanese movies. (And as we all know, the Japanese don't market their TV shows, or their TV actresses, in the U.S.)

Geezer wrote:

5) Who would I have chosen? Women with the best name and face recognition value I could find, in an effort to sell the movie. And face it... Japanese women do not rule the Japanese movie industry. Japanese TV, yes. But not Japanese movies. (And as we all know, the Japanese don't market their TV shows, or their TV actresses, in the U.S.)

Why didn't they just take the extra step and get Julia Roberts, Angelina Jolie, and Reese Witherspoon and slather on the Asian makeup? I mean they did that back in the medieval 30's and 40's with Luise Rainer in The Good Earth and Katherine Hepburn in Dragon Seed....

I don't care if it is good and Watanabe-san is in it. I ain't seein' it.

BMW,

That was sort of my point when I said at least they got Asian Actresses to play the parts.

It's not really that long ago when Myrna Loy and Sylvia Sidney were playing Chinese "Dragon Queens".

And you want to name the number of Chinese actors who played Charlie Chan? And how Japanese was Peter Lorre when he play Mr. Moto?

Things have changed.

(Then again, I'm watching a 2004 Japanese show called "Proof of the Man" where a Japanese actor is playing an African American...in black face.)

Geezer wrote:

2) Casting three Chinese women in the main parts. Hey, at least they're casting Asians in the main parts. (And Watanabe Ken is in the movie.)

Yeah, I'm glad Ken's been cast. I expect that the 3 ladies will be in Geisha facial make-up 75% of the time, so you'd not be able to tell they were chugokujin.

Geezer wrote:

3) BMW's comment about Asians all looking alike. Yup. I think you should all wear name tags.

I don't understand what you mean here?

Geezer wrote:

4) PC. Ever since "Raise the Red Lantern" Gong Li has been pretty well known. Even outside the Chinese community. (I'd venture to say more non Asian Americans know her work than know Zhang Ziyi's. And we can say Li's name!)

Raise the Red Lantern is largely only known to film critics and art-circle film viewers. Mainstream American film watchers will have no idea who Gong Li is. Where CTHD was showcased at the Oscars and Rush Hour 2 was also a Hollywood film, so mainstream America knows who Zhang Ziyi is. She's also been in some major publications, I forget which, like GQ and Vanity Fair, etc., for interviews.

I read one of those Zhang Ziyi interviews, I recall her talking about her background being that of a dancer, not of a martial artist, so that her moves had grace but no power. She also mentioned that she didn't have a boyfriend.
-PCM

pcmodem wrote:

She also mentioned that she didn't have a boyfriend.

There ya go.

bmwracer wrote:

Why didn't they just take the extra step and get Julia Roberts, Angelina Jolie, and Reese Witherspoon and slather on the Asian makeup? I mean they did that back in the medieval 30's and 40's with Luise Rainer in The Good Earth and Katherine Hepburn in Dragon Seed.... I don't care if it is good and Watanabe-san is in it. I ain't seein' it.

I know...

Along that line, I adore Audrey Hepburn and like the song Moon River from the classic film Breakfast at Tiffany's... but the potrayal of Japanese in that film is one of the most racist and deplorable characterizations in Hollywood's history. Mickey Rooney is cast as a buffoon repressed Japanese.
-PCM

pcmodem wrote:

Along that line, I adore Audrey Hepburn and like the song Moon River from the classic film Breakfast at Tiffany's... but the potrayal of Japanese in that film is one of the most racist and deplorable characterizations in Hollywood's history. Mickey Rooney is cast as a buffoon repressed Japanese.

Abso-freaking-lutely. That's why I don't have that DVD in my collection... It's straight outta WWII-era movie stereotypes...

Speaking of Michelle Yeoh, did you see the Oscars that year when CTHD was showcased and won the Foreign Film best picture? Wow, Michelle looked utterly smashing in that old school red dress

I was watching the Oscars that night at a formal party, and a number of the ladies got really catty when Michelle glided out onto the stage in that outfit, they were so jealous of how awesome she looked... and she like 40! She's aging well.
-PCM

While I understand the idea that "all Asians look-alike" mentality might be at play in this movie, there's also the fact that no-name actresses don't get cast in movies.

To make a stink about "Races" being mixed up in film only when it applies to the Asian market and say that Caucasian actresses ought to be cast overlooks the fact that 90% of historical movies represented in the European nations--such as "Braveheart"--are not played by those "races/ethnicities." Or how about "Girl with a Pearl Earring" which is played by an English man when the story is about a Dutchman I believe.

Jennifer Lopez, a�@Puerto Rican, plays a Mexican in "Selena," which actually did make plenty of Mexicans angry--but everyone agreed that the movie was well-portrayed, so it was easy to ignore. She also plays an Italian woman in "The Wedding Planner."

Madonna also plays an Argentinian woman who was not Caucasian in the eyes of her countrymen, making plenty of people angry. But Madonna's acting persuaded some people to accept it.

Antonio Banderas has been casted as a Mexican, if I am not mistaken.

Most American shows with a cast and crew of African-American or "random Hispanics" are often vice versa--many Hispanics play African Americans--and many African-Americans, Hispanics.

That guy from the "Office" movie who plays an Indian has also played Arabs, AS WELL AS Mexicans.

My point is this: if you're not slapping on make-up or altering your apperance to be the character in a mocking sort of way, represent the role with all the dignity it deserves and do your job--ACT. Actors are not the actual thing--they are representations of a story.

We can, though, hope that the movie industry sees more ethnically Japanese people in Japanese roles. Or in the movie industry period. Heck, I'd like to see an African actor play an African in an American movie rather than some Black American/Canadian person with a thick/fake accent, too, but if they do a good job, I can't complain.

PC

What did I mean when I typed:

"BMW's comment about Asians all looking alike. Yup. I think you should all wear name tags. "

Probably something less insulting and snarky than it sounds, but it's late and I'm tired.

Honest to Santa truth here? More often than I like to admit, I do need help to know if someone is Chinese, or Japanese, Korean, or just about any other Asian nationality. I can usually tell by their name. I can always tell if I hear them speaking Chinese or Japanese (though I often confuse Korean for Chinese).

I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm white. Maybe it's because I'm dumb. But I can't always tell a persons nationality just by looking at them. Can you?

yume,

Boy I wish I'd said that.

pcmodem wrote:

Who would you have cast as Sayuri, Mameha, and Hatsumomo? My picks: Sayuri - Tanaka Rena Mameha - Kuroki Hitomi Hatsumomo - Matsushima Nanako Note that if even one of these three roles had been cast with a nihonjin actresses, I'd not have minded. It's just that NONE of the three roles were, which is what I view as wrong. -PCM

I loved the book!! but it would've been better if the cast were all Japanese.
sayuri - koyuki
mameha-cant think of anyone yet
hatsumomo-"

does zhang ziyi speak japanese fluently??..or the whole movie going to be in english?

Since it's an American movie, produced by Spielberg, and directed by Rob Marshall (Chicago) the odds are it's gonna be in English.

Not everyone's ethnicity can be told just by looking at them. And if it could, we'd probably have even worse ethnic discrimination on our hands, ha.

As long as we don't call people from Ireland English, and people from East Asia "Chinese," I think we're all gonna be alright...

But back to the casting question...
I'd like to see Shibasaki Kou as Sayuri
The other ones I'll consent to since I don't remember the book well.

Geezer wrote:

But I can't always tell a persons nationality just by looking at them. Can you?

I don't think that's the point. If the role calls for a certain ethnicity, you'd normally (logically?) start looking at actors of that ethnicity... I just can't imagine that they couldn't find three Japanese actresses to fill those three roles...

Geezer wrote:

Honest to Santa truth here? More often than I like to admit, I do need help to know if someone is Chinese, or Japanese, Korean, or just about any other Asian nationality. I can usually tell by their name. I can always tell if I hear them speaking Chinese or Japanese (though I often confuse Korean for Chinese). I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm white. Maybe it's because I'm dumb. But I can't always tell a persons nationality just by looking at them. Can you?

Sometimes I can't tell the difference between japanese, chinese and koreans either...and I am japanese.
although it would have been really great to see a Japanese actress in the movie, it doesn't make me really angry.