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Samurai vs. Knight
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A knight or a samurai?
knight
23%
 23%  [ 24 ]
Samurai
76%
 76%  [ 77 ]
Total Votes : 101

Ajatollah



Joined: 28 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

and my money goes to....

Samurai

why.... Because I'am biased

well, after reading about all some very knowledgeable pleople have posted in this thread, it is quite evident that the knight has serious things going for his gear, also, for the kind of diversity the european knights went trough in their wars, thier discipline it's supoused to be also very strong.

I must state first of all that I'am VERY IGNORANT, yes with capital letters, all my serious knowledge for this topic comes from videogames, anime and in the best case from discovery channel or something like that and maybe some books. So my opinion is not to be taken as nothing more than the opinion of a very narrow and ignorant modern mind.

Mr katumoto stated a good point, that in my narrow view of the world gives the samurai the advantage, and that is the state of mind.

As for the little historical knowledge I got, Dr. Isaac Asimov's divulgation essays describe thier origins and ways as something very far from noble, the Chevaliers beign some sort of very priviliged and rich war boy which was feared because of it's affection to pick up on unarmed and poorly equiped peasants. Their wealth and equipment puts them in a favorable position of dominating lands and masses of peasants (also beign the great source of income they used to be then...) came to be very appreciated by kings and noble classes, which in return of favors granted more money, authority and perhaps the public approval that led to the romantic development of the image we commonly have today of them. After that kingdoms and nations comming in conflict with each other put their knights at the point of their armies which might have led to the military evolution we are aware of.

With the "public" aproval of the kings, and therefore of pope, comes the divine side of the knight's task, keeping the lands safe from foreigners, and maybe recover the holy land. By then the knights are showered with power, wealth, fame, and an aura of saivors. They as a social class eventually got betrayed and disposed of by political means. Very nasty indeed.

From all this, the little historical perception I get of the knight culture is that their code of honor was forged more by public relations than by a way of life, during their existense they might have found the need to hone their skills, after all war was their business, and skill is a very important building brick in the pursuit of victories. But their motivations and sense of their own place in life seems not to be so romantic at most times during their existence.

Their training may have been very hard, and they had to be skilled but then comes the samurai.

My ignorance about samurai I think is bigger than that of european knights, but as little as I know of them the little historical stuff that has reached up to me gives me the perception that samurai had a bigger thing going for their view of life and war, and art for that matter than the european knights had for their equipment and motivations. I have only read the five ring book, and beyond beign for some people a demi adaptation of the chinese art of war, describes many points in the samurai culture that I think a knight of the time would have had trouble dealing with. As someone already said, a samurai would go to war with one and only one thing in mind, a void, no fears, no remorse, and the total dedication at one goal, kill, not kill or be killed, not try kill the most, nor getting fame and glory, just do what you rtrained for and what you were born to do, honor the tradition and let the battle engulf you. If you die, you are happy with it, if you don't, you just accomplished what you came to do and live for.

From Miyamoto's view of things there are no doubts, nor strange motivations, just killing.

there is always a but, Miyamoto's book accounts that his own style and viewpoint of the combat were not common in his time, that means that in his time most of the japanese warriors did not follow his ways, I don't know how much time Samurai class outlived Miyamoto's work, but if it was enough to be wellspread among the samurai class in Japan, they had a very good tool in their philosophy which in my little experience of life gives you an edge at whaterver you do, it does not guarantee material success, but pretty much favors it, and also guarantees spiritual success in your mind.

and that's why Samurai would have my simpathy and my money on a bet.

It's of course pointless to argue seriously about who would win, no way to proof, I do not think modern praticioners have the same level both kind of warriors had on their splendor days, be it higher or lower, it's just not the same probably.

As for Mongols (or huns?), I was made to believe (by some documentray or something like that) that they in fact kicked Europe's derriere, made it as far as Hungary, and that they just couldn't be stopped at the time, also heard that some troops of the Mongols set foot in Italy itself,and that the Pope (not as a benevolent figure as we have now) had to pay a good contribution to the mongols to ensure the survival of his towns.

Then mongols went back because of the death of the Khan, and the empire decayed, maybe because of fragmentation, and mostly because of the sick size of it's territories was something difficult to mantain.

As for spanish conquest I'am a bit more informed:

Yes disease and deceit won the wars for spanish conquerors in America, their firsts direct battles with the Aztec empire despite of attacking on surprise against the Aztecs, the spanish troops got their ass seriously kicked (I don't have to go about the spanish having on their side, surpise and treason, horses, steel, ARMOR, and even fire arms) after all, Aztecs had comparatively poor crafted bows, and their weapons were made of wood and stone, but had some serious way of viewing war as a way of life, a force of nature and also were well used to eat the heart of their enemies, as a way to honor them, after some serious retreat, Hernan Cortes made pacts with other enemy tribes of the Aztecs in the region and with their help and the problems that the new diseases brought, put an end to the aztec domination. Later on reinforcements came to america and the rest is history.

So as fictional as the match goes, I put all the odds on those that seem (to me) had the greatest sense of dedication known to human warriors,
Bow the Samurai.

P.S. sorry for the first big post and the lousy english.
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chrisyukiefan



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Samurai's the best!!! hehe hehe than knights..
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akitezuka



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Its a hard choice , but I just love samurai !
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Ren



Joined: 24 May 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Hey anyone saw House of Flying dagger ? i thought it was pretty good. Great fight scene and the way they shot the movie is so beautiful. directed by the same guy that directed Hero.
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chrisyukiefan



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Ren wrote:
Hey anyone saw House of Flying dagger ? i thought it was pretty good. Great fight scene and the way they shot the movie is so beautiful. directed by the same guy that directed Hero.

hi... I did'nt watch that movie but Hero I watch it... wonderful movie...
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ptasiek



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Hi
On the bigining sorry about my english :p

I think the samurai can't defead the polish "husaria" :p of course husaria was elite cavalery:p

http://www.jasinski.co.uk/wojna/spirals/s-hussar.htm


The ultimate weapon of the Husaria was psychological. As well as wearing helmets, thick steel breastplates and shoulder and arm guards the Husaria also wore wings; great wooden arcs bristling with eagle feathers attached to the back of the saddle or the shoulders. Over their shoulders they wore the skin of a tiger or leopard as a cloak. Their harnesses, saddles and horse-cloths were embroidered and embellished with gold and gems and their long lances were painted with stripes like a stick of rock and decorated with a five-foot-long silk pennant which, along with the wings and jingling jewelry, made a frightful sound (described as "an evil hiss" by some) and sight during the charge. They even sometimes painted their horses red and white!

For over a century, the Husaria were the lords of the battlefield, delivering the decisive blow in many an important engagement; at Kircholm (1605) 4,000 Poles accounted for 14,000 Swedes, at Klushino (1610) 6,000 Poles (of only 200 were infantry) defeated 30,000 Muscovite and 5,000 German and Scottish mercenaries, at Gniew (1656) 5,500 Polish cavalry defeated 13,000 Swedes and outside Vienna (1683) the Husaria saved Europe from the, until then, unstoppable might of the Ottoman Empire.

Weapon:

szabla:
The history of the polish saber is very long and has its beginnings in the early 16th Century. The polish saber is essentially the combination of two different sabers. An eastern type saber was combined with a Hungarian saber to form one of the best


"The saber belonging to the so called white weapons, or sidearms, with the help of which the Poles acheived many victories. Thus became the beloved national weapon, which the polish knights gave up in battle with his life. The relationship between a Pole and his saber, does not repeat in any other nation." Zygmunt Gloger
http://www.jest.art.pl/szabelka.html
http://husaria1.webpark.pl/gfx/sz_batorowka.jpg
http://husaria1.webpark.pl/gfx/sz_pol_hus.jpg


but they use other wepon:
nadziak: on armour oponenthttp://www.jest.art.pl/nadziak.html
kopia:http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/lance.htm


Husaria: the Commonwealth's "Tanks"http://www.wingedhussar.org/husaria.html

and the armour weight was only 7-8 kg, so this isn't that much
http://www.ct-yankee.com/husaria.html
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ptasiek



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

so they don't use haevy swords. Polish szabla was similar with japanese katana.Maybe not that sharp:hehe:(but it was to sharp to cut some parts of body:mrgreen: ), but construction was very similar:"It was the curved Eastern sabre, modified by the Hungarians and further adapted by the Poles in the sixteenth century until it reached a combination of length, weight and curve which gave it a uniquely high ratio of cutting power to effort expended" (Zamoyski, The Polish Way, p. 155). Mr Green
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chrisyukiefan



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Samurai have more techniques than knights Mr Green
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ptasiek



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

chrisyukiefan wrote:
Samurai have more techniques than knights Mr Green

I don't think so hehe
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chrisyukiefan



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ptasiek wrote:

I don't think so hehe

Why... Mr Green
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ptasiek



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

chrisyukiefan wrote:
Why... Mr Green

Because knigts train as well from their childhood Mr Green
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chrisyukiefan



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ptasiek wrote:

Because knigts train as well from their childhood Mr Green

I think their the same... samurai also train since childhood.... hehe
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ptasiek



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

so why You say that samurai have more techniques than knights?
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niko2x



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Ren wrote:
Hey anyone saw House of Flying dagger ? i thought it was pretty good. Great fight scene and the way they shot the movie is so beautiful. directed by the same guy that directed Hero.
hey ren, aren't you surprised to see one of your old threads that has lasted this long? Long time no see man, don't be a stranger!
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chrisyukiefan



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ptasiek wrote:
so why You say that samurai have more techniques than knights?

hmmm.... ahhh... 'coz i like samurai than knights... hahahaha rofl rofl hehe Bonk joke joke joke!! hehe i only see on movie... about samurai. like Last samurai and other samurai movies... they used lot of battle tactics... hehe by the way you watch last samurai? hehe
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ptasiek



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

chrisyukiefan wrote:
hmmm.... ahhh... 'coz i like samurai than knights... hahahaha rofl rofl hehe Bonk joke joke joke!! hehe i only see on movie... about samurai. like Last samurai and other samurai movies... they used lot of battle tactics... hehe by the way you watch last samurai? hehe

I like the samurai then knights too hehe but this doesn't mean they were better worriors. You know, in movies there are lots of fictions Mr Green
Yeah I watch it Smile not that bad Smile but I prefer japan's movies about samurais like "When the last sword is drawn" or older like Kurosawa movies
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Samx



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:38 am    Post subject: hello i just wanted to say Reply with quote Back to top

Well actually the samurai sword is able to cute through medieval knight armor and with extreme ease and the samurai sword can hold up against the knights broad sword easily plus the samurai will still fight to the death even with out a arm or a leg. Also the are fast and they can jump really high and get behind the knight and cute trough the armor Yeah w00t!
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ptasiek



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: hello i just wanted to say Reply with quote Back to top

Samx wrote:
Well actually the samurai sword is able to cute through medieval knight armor and with extreme ease and the samurai sword can hold up against the knights broad sword easily plus the samurai will still fight to the death even with out a arm or a leg. Also the are fast and they can jump really high and get behind the knight and cute trough the armor Yeah w00t!


You watched too much movies hehe
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Ashrafi



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:58 am    Post subject: are u kidding me? they were both trained at a very young age Reply with quote Back to top

chrisyukiefan wrote:
Samurai have more techniques than knights Mr Green
Crazy are u kidding me? they were both trained at a very young age, about 8 years of age. So that makes no sence, Some of you ppl should come to your sences and realize the knight would win due to the armor and chainmail, swords wernt much different.
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Ashrafi



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:02 am    Post subject: Re:Your an idiot Reply with quote Back to top

Samx wrote:
Well actually the samurai sword is able to cute through medieval knight armor and with extreme ease and the samurai sword can hold up against the knights broad sword easily plus the samurai will still fight to the death even with out a arm or a leg. Also the are fast and they can jump really high and get behind the knight and cute trough the armor Yeah w00t!
Beat You You should stay away from the televistion for a while. Samauri's katana was made out of shity steel. They wernt ment to slice thru armor it was ment to cut leather.
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