Thank you so much for helping me ! I really appreciate it !

Not to be a bother but your explanation was so good I have a few other questions, I was hoping you could check for me.

kimi ni aitai = I want to meet you
Kimi ni aitakute = I want to see you

These are the same root verb aimasu = to meet.... and virtually mean the same thing so are they interchangeable ? I don't know what the ending �`takute conjugates the verb to. Can anyone provide an explanation of how it's used ?

Another word I'm having difficulty understanding is Wakateita.. I know the root verb is wakaru = to understand. What does this conjugation mean? My guess is "used to understand..."

This brings me to my final question.

I'm trying to say ,"I used to love him/this person."

�܂��͂��̐l�������Ă��B
or should it be

�܂��͂��̐l�������Ă����B

I know this sentences seems a little off the wall but I'm writing my livejournal (blog) in japanese for practise. Sometimes I don't know if what I'm saying makes sense... lol Again any help that anyone can offer is really appreciated.

It would be:

�܂��͂��̐l�������Ă����B

Oh, hi btw, this is my first post.

Kangasama wrote:

Thank you so much for helping me ! I really appreciate it ! Not to be a bother but your explanation was so good I have a few other questions, I was hoping you could check for me. kimi ni aitai = I want to meet you Kimi ni aitakute = I want to see you These are the same root verb aimasu = to meet.... and virtually mean the same thing so are they interchangeable ? I don't know what the ending �`takute conjugates the verb to. Can anyone provide an explanation of how it's used ? Another word I'm having difficulty understanding is Wakateita.. I know the root verb is wakaru = to understand. What does this conjugation mean? My guess is "used to understand..." This brings me to my final question. I'm trying to say ,"I used to love him/this person." �܂��͂��̐l�������Ă��B or should it be �܂��͂��̐l�������Ă����B I know this sentences seems a little off the wall but I'm writing my livejournal (blog) in japanese for practise. Sometimes I don't know if what I'm saying makes sense... lol Again any help that anyone can offer is really appreciated.

Alrighty, here we go again

�N�ɉ���� and �N�ɉ������ mean basically the same thing...

When you add ���� to a �|���� ending, it means that something is to follow.
Eg:�@�N�ɉ�����Ă����ɗ����B (I missed you, (so) I came here (to see you)).

Think of it like the �� ending you use for verbs or clauses that are consecutive.
Eg:�@�x�b�h����N���āA������āA���ѐH�ׂāA�w�Z�ɍs�����B
(Bed kara okite, kao wo aratte, gakkou ni itta.)

You can just say �N�ɉ�����āc, but it implies to the other party that something follows (like the above).

About the interchangability, � means to see someone and to meet someone. You have to decide which one is meant by context.

Wakatteita (don't forget the double "t"), or ����������, means something along the lines of "I (already) knew that." If you just say wakatta ��������, it just implies that you have understood something that you have just been told.
Eg: ������O�ɕ������Ă����B (Iwareru mae ni wakatteita.)
(I knew (what he/she was going to say) before I was told.)

When the -���� ending is used with the verb to understand ������ or know �m��, it has a sense that the person knew something already (and still knows it). It can be used in the sense of "used to know," but it is usually used this way.
However, if it is used with another verb like �H�ׂ� (taberu) to eat, then �H�ׂĂ��� means "was eating."
Eg:
A����F�u�����������H�v (What were you doing?)
B����F�u�F�����ƗV��ł����B�v (I was (playing) with my friend.)

As for "I used to love this person," it should the following:

�O�ɂ́A���̐l�������Ă����B (Don't forget the �� after �܂�.)

It can be used without the ��, but I think it looks and sounds better with it there.

�c���������@and�@������ are gramatically the same.
The latter (without the ��) is how it is said and written in casual speech.
You would rarely hear ������ or �������� in a conversation between two friends.

Hope this all helps!

������
_________________

"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams

Not sure if anyone has asked either of these yet, but I'll give it a shot.

1) I'm looking for examples on using "hazu". I'd like to know if there are different ways to use it, how to use it, and what each way (if there are several) means.

2) With expressing likenesses and/or similarity, I'm looking for examples on the uses of "no you ni" and "mitai". I'd like to know the differences with using the two.

Sorry if this is confusing to explain, my Japanese is REALLY rusty and wasn't great to begin with

Hi there Jimmy,

I think kokuou has given a great explanation, maybe I can add a little [OMG this turned out little more than expected]. I'll also try to explain ga/wa a bit more.

In japanese, you write "wa" as "ha", but you say "wa". This goes for some grammatical particles:
write / speak
- ha / wa
- he / e
- wo / o

to understand the difference between Ga and Wa; it is often adviced to translate 'wa' as "concerning...." or "talking about..." This shows that 'wa' is actually used to mention the topic of a sentence. 'Ga' is the grammatical SUBJECT (the 'doer'), which is not very much the same.

Perhaps a good way to see "suki" is as "is (being) liked/favorite". This is weird in English, but actually the japanese word works like this. Many Japanese words work in different ways than English. For example: 'to wait' is used with an indirect object. "I wait for someone". Were it with a direct object: "I wait someone". You can't "wait somebody" but in Japanese you can. Direct objects get the particle "wo" and indirect get "ni".


1. Konpyuutaa wa suki desu = "Concerning computers, they are liked/favorite" >>>> "~I like computers"
2. Konpyuuta ga suki desu = "(the) Computers are liked/favorite" >>> "~I like computers"

Though both sentences may eventually be translated the same way, there is a (big, in the japanese ear) difference:
sentence 1: you specify what you are talking about, emphasizing that your statement particularly applies to computers (and perhaps not on other stuff). It has some sort of feel to it "computers are my favorite, but other things...(are not)"
sentence 2: clearly when (validly) translated using 'the..' - the emphasis is in "liked/favorite". This can be changed with different intonation in english but I hope you understand.

3. Watashi wa, Konpyuutaa ga suki desu = "Talking about me, computers are favorite" >>> "Computers are my favorite/I like computers"
4. Watashi wa, Konpyuutaa wa - suki desu = "Talking about me, concerning computers - they are favorite"

Both 3 and 4 are actually valid ways to SAY this. Number 4 might not be acceptable in 'serious' written text, while 3 is perfectly okay.


Okay lastly :-)... desu - as kokuou said - is the same as des. You should never write des though, since japanese doesn't have the sound "s". It only has "su" (and "sa/shi/se/so"). Some of these vowels in certain syllables ("su" is a syllable->shortest possible written 'text' in a japanese) are omitted or hardly hearable.

Examples are:
su > s
shi > sh (watashi -> watash)
hi > hi/h (with a very short i; hito-> hto)
ku > k (the word 'yakuza'='japanese gang' is more pronounced like 'yakza')
chi > ch (this one is remarkable, because the i in chi is often not said at all. "tomodachi"="friend" sounds alot like "tomodatsh" written in english style)

One time a japanese girl asked me about 's-sh', it sounded like only two consonants. It took me a while before I figured she just said 'sushi'. She couldn't understand that I couldn't recognize the sounds.

So after it, I discovered that Japanese is in normal speech a bit different from what you'd expect. Don't think you should try breaking your tongue over 'only pronouncing consonants' because it's not like that. Often foreigners - like me - over-pronounce things, just prevent doing that (if you say 'desu' with clearly pronouncing the 'u', it sounds as if you're spelling out the word).

- I hope I didn't overload you with too much explanation, but I always get like this when I start making a post.

SuperMidget

ps: kudasai = "please give me", so when requesting items (can also be used with -te like kokuou wrote) and "onegai shimasu" means "please do me a favor". Thats sort of the difference
_________________

supermidget wrote:

Hi there Jimmy, Examples are: su > s shi > sh (watashi -> watash) hi > hi/h (with a very short i; hito-> hto) ku > k (the word 'yakuza'='japanese gang' is more pronounced like 'yakza') chi > ch (this one is remarkable, because the i in chi is often not said at all. "tomodachi"="friend" sounds alot like "tomodatsh" written in english style)

Not that it has anything to do with learning Japanese, but this is called devocalization (yes, I'm a keener ). If you can pick out and remember where this happens, your Japanese will sound more like a native Japanese speaker's.

HTH

������
_________________

"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams

Thanks guys that's a great help.

So would it be reasonable to say that GA is generally more specific as in to address something specific within the context of the sentence? where as WA is more open ended and more general?

Am I right in think 'Ne' means 'for you/me'? as in Anata Ne? I've been taught to say 'Anata no kazuka ne' to mean = In your family, but I can't see how the 'ne' fits in or why it's needed. It's made more confusing because I've previously come to understand something which sounds like 'day rune' to mean = 'In'. And also because my notes has Anato No Karuma a koko 'ne' aremas ka = which despite my bad spelling is supposed to mean 'Is your car here?'. I can't see a 'for you' within the context of the question despite there being a 'ne' sound included.

Trying to predict which of the small sounds to bridge a sentence together has become the hardest part of trying to speak Japanese for me.

I'm also having difficulty when trying to speak a sentence which contains both a 'me' and a 'you' within the topic. For instance 'You are my son' - At first I thought it could simply be spoken 'Watashi No (o) Muzko(sp?)' but I'm thinking the 'you' part of the sentence wouldn't be defined enough yet I can't quite see how to correctly swing the sentence around from starting with the Watashi meaning and moving onto the Anata meaning.

Another thing that also baffles me is the difference between Nippon and Nihon. Is Nihon the spoken sound for Nippon or are they two different words? If they are the same word than why is Japan spelt Nippon when it appears to be pronouced so differently?

Can anyone explain what a slightly comical sounding 'aryary' means because I've seen it spoken in many different contexts of conversation and can't really pin it down to anything specific. I have found it appears to be more commonly spoken when talking about doing something quite grand, like an adventure or a big project.

I'm working on a passage of text, and I have to fill in appropriate words. I've already done it and am 99% sure that what I have written is acceptable. However, I would really appreciate it if someone could give it and quick read and tell me what they think. I've enclosed the words which were left blank in parenthesis []. I've put in my words, but if you think there are words which are better suited, please let me know. Each blank space is being given a number so as to make referencing them in the future easier. Many thanks in advance.

��bA�F

A: �T���͂ǂ��ł������H
B: �y�j���Ɍ�����CONCERT������ (1)[ �s���� ] ��ł��B�������납�����ł���B
A: �����ł����H�ł��A�ߌ�J�� (2)[ �ӂ��� ] �ł��傤�H�P�������čs������ł����H
B: �������A (3)[ �����čs���Ȃ��� ] �s���܂����B������A������Ƃ������Ђ��� (4)[ ���܂�����ł� ] �BA����́H
A: ���͂ǂ��ւ� (5)[ �s���Ȃ��� ] �Ƃł�����肵�Ă��܂����B

��bB:

A: B�搶�A���̊����͉��Ɠǂނ�ł����B�搶�� (6)[ �K���� ] �Ƃ���ɁA�����Œ��ׂ���ł����A����܂���ł����B
B: �u���񂦂�v�ł��B
A: (7)[ ���΂��������� ] �Ƃ����Ӗ��ł����B
B: �����ł��B
A: ���N�͂����Ɗ����� (8)[ �׋����悤 ] �Ǝv���Ă��܂��B�搶�A�ǂ�����΁A�������o�������ł����B
B: ������ (9)[ ���K���� ] �΁A(10)[ ���K���� ] �قNJo���邱�Ƃ��ł��܂��B������������Ƃ���؂ł��B
A: ���̎��Ƃ� (11)[ �I����� ] ���ƂŁA�����������₵�Ă������ł����B
B: �������B�ł��A�����̂��ƂȂ�AC�搶�� (12)[ ������ ] �ق��������ł���B���͒m��Ȃ��������������񂠂�܂�����B

�I���
--------

���肪�Ƃ��������܂��B

Thanks to anyone in advance. Any help is much appreciated.

P.S. I�fm also hoping to move into translation work after my studies, so I�fm translating everything I can get my hands on. I translated the two conversations below, would anyone (who is obviously fluent in both Japanese and English) be kind enough to have a look and let me know if I�fve translated it correctly? Again, many thanks.

----------------------
CONVERSATION A:
A: How was your weekend?
B: I went to see a concert in the park on Saturday. It was very interesting.
A: Ah, really? It rained during the afternoon, didn�ft it? Did you take an umbrella?
B: No, I went without taking an umbrella. So unfortunately, I caught a little cold. How about you? How was your weekend?
A: I didn�ft go anywhere, I stayed at home instead (i.e. stayed at home relaxing slowly).

CONVERSATION B:
A: Teacher, how do I read this kanji? I looked it up in a dictionary as you taught me but it wasn�ft there.
B: It�fs read as �gKIN-EN�h.
A: Does it mean you aren�ft allowed to smoke?
B: That�fs right.
A: This year I�fm thinking of studying even more kanji. Teacher, what�fs the best way of being able to memorise kanji?
B: The more you practise, the better you can memorise them. Writing them out several times is very important.
A: After the next class, it is possible for me to ask you a few more questions?
B: Of course. However, if it�fs about kanji you should ask Ms. C. There are lots of kanji I don�ft know.
----------------------

Jimmi wrote:

Thanks guys that's a great help. So would it be reasonable to say that GA is generally more specific as in to address something specific within the context of the sentence? where as WA is more open ended and more general? Am I right in think 'Ne' means 'for you/me'? as in Anata Ne? I've been taught to say 'Anata no kazuka ne' to mean = In your family, but I can't see how the 'ne' fits in or why it's needed. It's made more confusing because I've previously come to understand something which sounds like 'day rune' to mean = 'In'. And also because my notes has Anato No Karuma a koko 'ne' aremas ka = which despite my bad spelling is supposed to mean 'Is your car here?'. I can't see a 'for you' within the context of the question despite there being a 'ne' sound included. Trying to predict which of the small sounds to bridge a sentence together has become the hardest part of trying to speak Japanese for me. I'm also having difficulty when trying to speak a sentence which contains both a 'me' and a 'you' within the topic. For instance 'You are my son' - At first I thought it could simply be spoken 'Watashi No (o) Muzko(sp?)' but I'm thinking the 'you' part of the sentence wouldn't be defined enough yet I can't quite see how to correctly swing the sentence around from starting with the Watashi meaning and moving onto the Anata meaning. Another thing that also baffles me is the difference between Nippon and Nihon. Is Nihon the spoken sound for Nippon or are they two different words? If they are the same word than why is Japan spelt Nippon when it appears to be pronouced so differently? Can anyone explain what a slightly comical sounding 'aryary' means because I've seen it spoken in many different contexts of conversation and can't really pin it down to anything specific. I have found it appears to be more commonly spoken when talking about doing something quite grand, like an adventure or a big project.

Hajimemashite. New here and I'm going to try to help as much as I can. (I'm in my third year of study and a hopeful translator.)

Wa and Ga is one of the most difficult parts of the language, and you mostly have to keep learning it. One way I was taught of differentiating it is whether the focus of the sentence is the subject or the information. Two example questions:

Anata wa isha desu ka? = Are you a doctor?

The subject is already known, you, and it's asking for information about you. Now, if you were in a crowd and asked,

Dare ga isha desu ka?

You're asking "Who (here) is a doctor?" You already know the information, the being a doctor, and you need to know who fills the role.

Honestly, wa and ga have a lot of different distinctions, and only knowing one of them will confuse you more than it'll help. Another example is that you use ga when saying that you're able to do something.

Watashi wa sandoicchi o tsukurimasu. = I make sandwiches. (I'm putting all these in teineigo despite not being fond of it, since that's what you learn in the textbooks.)

Watashi wa sandoicchi ga tsukuremasu. = I can make sandwiches.

Ne is a little thing you put at the end of a sentence for confirmation, usually. It gives the other person the opportunity to easily agree with you. It can also make a sentence sound more like agreeing even when it doesn't need to be, like the ubiquitous answer of "Sou desu ne" to just about any comment. When you sound like you're agreeing instead of just giving a fact, or giving the opportunity to agree, it's more polite, as far as I know. I don't quite understand it myself.

If you're trying to say "You are my son," you don't start with watashi. The only way I can think to say that is "Anata wa watashi no musuko desu." I know it's a surprise that it translates with pretty much the same logic as the original sentence, but sometimes it works out that way. = )

As for Nihon and Nippon, you just mostly use nihon, but there are a few specific situations where people use nippon, and it's just a matter of seeing them. If you're not sure, you're probably better off using nihon because it's more common nowadays.

And just to note, when using "watashi wa x ga suki desu" to say that you like something, don't use it to say that you like someone unless you mean romantically. for that you would say "person wa adjective hito desu." Ex: "Tanaka-san wa ii hito desu." = "Tanaka is a good/nice person."

Sorry for the length of this, I just get a little... overzealous. Please bear with me. ^_^;;;;
_________________

"You can't dodge your responsibilities by saying they don't exist!"
-Douglas Adams

Wow that's alot of questions :-) Sorry I answer so late, I didn't check the forum for a while.

Ga/wa:

that's a good way to summarize; I think you understand ga/wa pretty well now.

Ne?:

"ne" doesn't mean "for you" (at all). I think you mixed up "ne" and "ni". There are some particles starting "n": "ni", "ne", "no", "na"

Ne (pronounce: never):

Ne is the particle you would only find at the end of a sentence, and is not realy something grammatical. "ne" is usually to request for agreement, which is used alot. "Iku ne?" could mean "You're going, right?"


Ni (pronounce: bikini):

Ni is another particle which has many functions. In general, when encountering "ni", you should picture somesort of direction/location. Specifically "ni" can be used as:


1. Indirect Object (to)

Anata ni kiku ~ "I'll ask it to you"

2. Direction (to, towards)

Anata ni iku ~ "I'll go to you"

3. Location where something IS (at, in, on)

Suupaa ni imasu ~ "I'm in the supermarket"

4. Time (at)

Ichi-ji ni iku ~ "I'll go At 1 o'clock"

5. The 'doer' in a passive sentence (by)

Anata ni kamareta ~ "I have been bitten by you"



Ni has many functions, these are only the most systematic ones... You mentioned "Anata no kazoku ni", which could mean "In your family..." or "For your family...". In Pimsleur *learn japanese* audio tapes I heard "Watashi no kazoku ni (wa), kuruma ga juubun ookii desu" ~ "For my family (concerned), the car is big enough". So this example fits in the "ni" section.

Anata no kuruma wa koko ni arimasu ka ~ "Is your car here?"

Anato no kuruma wa (talking about your car)
koko ni (litterally: "at this place")
arimasu ka (is it existent?)

Day Rune?:

Your other problem "Day rune" gave me some trouble, but after puzzling I think you might have ment "hairu ne". This would translate "You'll enter (go in somewhere), right?", probably meaning "Please come in". Other then that, I have no idea. If you could find some more context on this, maybe we can find out, but I don't think it would simply mean "in" anyhow.

Constructing a sentence:

Now I'll try to help you making that sentence "you are my son". Note that each kind of noun gets it's own typical particle. Always start simple:


1. Determine the subject/ topic, which is often at the beginning of the sentence: "You". Stuff like "I/you/they" are more often omited than spoken:

(Anata wa) ....

2 Determine the verb. "are" -> "to be". In japanese, constructions like "X is Y" are made like "X wa Y desu". The verb is always at the end of the sentence. (Except for when it's a "sub-sentence"). So the verb to use is "desu"

(Anata wa) .... desu

3 What IS the subject (subject complement?)? Answer: "a son". Which is "musuko" in japanese. This doesn't have a particle.

(Anata wa) .... musuko .... desu (you are a son; now we have a sentence)

4 Any words that require attributes? Yes, son needs the attribute me or i. As you said, you do this with no. Always translate "no" with "of" in the first place, and then invert everything, to prevent confusion. So "my son" >>> "son of I" >>invert>> "I no son" "watashi no musuko"

(Anata wa) watashi no musuko desu ~ "You are my son"

Done. It's probably much easier than what you feared. Another important thing; maybe you asked it for the exact purpose, but - I've heard - saying "anata wa watashi no musuko desu!" in Japan to someone who isn't your son, would implicate that you slept with his mother, thus it is a huge insult. Could anyone (dis)confirm this?

Nihon/nippon:

In Japanese, these two words meaning "Japan" are spelled the same way (���{). Difference in pronounciation has to do with the combining of the two chinese characters (kanji) of �� and �{. When combining two kanji, for each kanji a certain pronounciation is chosen. �� was chosen "nichi" and for �{ "hon" for both words. When joining, "hon" becomes "pon". This may sound random, but written hiragana clarifies:

"hon" = �ق� = �{
"pon" = ���� = �{

This kind of change happens often, and (I think) is called vocalisation. Vocalisation in hiragana is shown by the extra 'accents' (jpn: nigori). A small circle �� is used to change from h>p and two small strokes '' for some other changes (h>b, t>d, k>g etc...).

Also contractions may occur. This is usually the removal of some syllables, replacing it with a small tsu �� (duplicating the following hard sound ~ inserting hold of breath). This is what happens when "nichi" and "pon" are finally joined:

"nichi" + "hon"
"nichi" + "pon"
"ni" + (duplication > p) + "pon"
"nippon" = �����ۂ� = ���{

In other cases, a syllable is omited without adding the small tsu. In the case of "nihon", "nichi" is shortened to "ni" without further change:

"nichi" + "hon"
"ni" + "hon"
"nihon" = �ɂق� = ���{


Okay long explanation for short answer... Yes, they are exactly the same. Ignoring the above: sort of like ���� can be pronounced "kon'nichi" or "kyou" both meaning today/ this day.

Aryary:

I also had to figure abit about this one. I vaguely remembered something like "yareyare" which I heard sometimes in animé. When I entered it in my dictionary it said:

yare: Oh!, Ah!, Oh dear!, Dear me!, Aah!, Thank God!
yareyare: (exclamation of relief or disappointment)

Well this almosts starts to become a book, but I hope it helps you. I'm thinking of writing a website or some other kind of document about "japanese for beginners", so for me, this is good practice. Hopefully it's a little clear cause if it's not, I probably shouldn't make any tutorials either.

If you have any questions, no problem... good luck :-)

SuperMidget
_________________

Hi hikarinotabi, welcome to the forums. I'm actually new her too (though I've done a few posts a year ago).

Jimmi:
I suddenly realised some things you mentioned in an earlier post about "wo/o" (you said it's used often when talking about money and health). What you have discovered is the "honorific prefix o-". This confused me alot when I started learning Japanese. The honorific -o is something totally different then the "wo/o". It is also not written (w)o �� but just o ��.

You now know wo is used after direct objects. O- is used to make words look nicer, and can (not always) be used to give more honor to the word it's prefixed to:

kane = money
o-kane = money (but sounds less rude)
o-sake = alcohol/sake
o-genki = the honorable health
o-hashi = chopsticks

In the case of genki it might be obvious why the prefix o- is used. When asking about someone's health, the o- makes it more polite. If discussing your own health, using o-genki is out of the question. You shouldn't be too 'honorific' about yourself. For other words in which the prefix doesn't have the honor aspect (like o-kane), you don't need to make a difference between yourself and someone else, but remember the politeness:

sake kudasai ~ sounds like ~ "please give sake!"
o-sake kudasai ~ sounds like ~ "some sake, please"

So some words can get the o-, and some can't. For some it's more usual to use them, for others; using it sounds verrry polite.
_________________

Very good.

Very good.
_________________

This term was brought up a few months ago, but I really want to know how it is used. (Mods, please move this to the correct place if needed). This relates to jimaku housou (���������j. As far as I understand, this means the show contains subtitles. Are these subtitles similar to closed captioning found in the US? In other words, how do you view the jimaku?

Thanks guys that's a really great help.

Supermidget:
You're right about the confusion with Ne and Ni. I didn't realise Ni had so many uses. You're description helps a great deal.

So if I've got this understood correctly then:
"Watashi no kazoku ni (wa), kuruma ga juubun ookii desu" - The "Ni" is highlighting the English translation of the word "In" to make a rough English translation of "In my Family", right?

Now the 2nd part of the sentence - "kuruma ga juubun ookii desu", contains the English translation "Is" - "The car is big enough". Does this mean that "Ni" could also be used within this sentence? If not is there a reason why not, your explaination has "Ni" down as a possible substitute for "Is".


Day Rune:
I really need to buy a book so I can write this stuff correctly.
If I was to say that the "day" sound seems to be used when talking about where you live would that make it easier to understand? Example - "Shinjuku Ni sune day mas ka" / "sune" is probably spelt wrong too.

I was trying to recall the "rune" sound and I've narrowed it down to a context of wanting something I think. If you can bear the bad spelling (I'll try and spell how it appears to be spoken) my notes contain the following - "Nom e ta ga(t) day rune desu ga" My notes simply state "want to drink" as the translation.

Aryary:
Can you elaborate on the dictionary you used as it sounds quite useful.


A big thanks once again to everyone who's taken the time out to help.
What would be the best book to purchase for learning how to speak Japanese? I've been looking into taking practical courses but they are few and far between in England what with the languages of the pillars of mainland Europe (French, Spanish, German, etc) taking a far higher precedent of importance for most people. So I've been forced into self-teaching.

Hi again,

In my previous explanation is gave as translation for "watashi no kazoku ni" some possibilities, which are "in my family", "for my family". But there can be many others, depending on the rest of the sentence. Actually, officially you would say you can't translate "watashi no kazoku ni" for the lack of context. You can learn this from the examples of all "ni"'s different functions. So in certain cases "ni" can be litterally translated with "in", but please try not to be narrow minded.

The second part of that sentence was to be honest of lesser importance (only to provide context) and contains some stuff you probably haven't learned yet. But in any case, "ni" is a particle and therefor should never be translated as a verb! Particles are to specify certain relationships between nouns, but never acts as a verb. The "is" in the english sentence "the car is big enough" is already in "desu" (also in "ookii" which means "to be big", but that might be to confusing for now). There's no way to fit "ni" in there.

Kuruma ga ookii desu ~ "The car is big" (compare: atana wa musuko desu. Only difference is "wa", please ignore in this case)

A particle should always be joined to a noun. The only noun here is "kuruma", and adding it to "kuruma" wouldn't make any sence at all:

kuruma ni ookii desu: ~ "In the car is big", "To the car is big", "For (not in causal way) the car is big", "At the car is big"

See? "Ni" can't fit here.


Day Rune:
It seems that this word has gotten an interesting transformation when it entered your memory :-) The reason for this is because a) you have no real clue about which words in a Jpn sentence are verbs and which are nouns. Having sentences on paper would help alot. b) You haven't learned what sounds are possible in Japanese and how to write them in english.

For a: i can advice not to start on a too high level. If you have easier material available, please start with that, and make sure you understand it all (gramatically) before moving on the more complicated ones. Don't skip things you don't understand. For b: Luckily there are many sites that have this information. Here's what sounds in Japanese are possible:

Code:

A     I     U     E     O   ---------------------------------   :     A     I     U     E     O K-:     KA    KI    KU    KE    KO S-:     SA    SHI   SU    SE    SO T-:     TA    CHI   TSU   TE    TO N-:     NA    NI    NU    NE    NO H-:     HA    HI    FU    HE    HO M-:     MA    MI    MU    ME    MO Y-:     YA     -    YU    -     YO R-:     RA    RI    RU    RE    RO W-:     WA    -      -     -    WO   :     N These are created by vocalising other syllables (nigori = " and ��) K-":    GA    GI    GU    GE   GO S-":    ZA    JI    ZU    ZE   ZO D-":    DA    JI    ZU    DE   DO H-":    BA    BI    BU    BE   BO H-��:    PA    PI    PU    PE   PO furthermore, combining one big syllable from the "i" column with a small "ya, yu or yo" can create new sounds:         YA    YU    YO     ------------------- KI  :   KYA   KYU   KYO KI" :   GYA   GYU   GYO     (with nigori again) SHI :   SHA   SHU   SHO SHI":   JA    JU    JO      (with nigori again) CHI :   CHA   CHU   CHO HI  :   HYA   HYU   HYO HI" :   BYA   BYU   BYO     (with nigori again) HI�� :   PYA   PYU   PYO     (with nigori again) MI  :   MYA   MYU   MYO

Okay now you know sounds and how to write them, you should be able to explain words you heared better (i hope).

Shinjuku ni sunde imasu ~ "I live in Shinjuku"
Shinjuku ni sunde iru ~ "I live in Shinjuku"

The "Day" is actually in sunde iru. Sunde comes from "sumu" which means "to live (in a house)". The "imasu" or "iru" (rough meaning: to be) added to the changed for of "sumu" is to make a Present Continues:

"I am living in Shinjuku"

The "in" again is found in the word "ni". Everytime you hear that "day" as how you describe it, you're probably facing a progressive/continues form.

Taberu ~ "I'll eat / I eat (habit)"
Tabete iru ~ "I am eating"

Sumu ~ "I'll live"
Sunde iru ~ "I'm living"

Matsu ~ "I'll wait / I wait"
Matte iru ~ "I'm waiting"

You should note: This construction we call at school the "-te + iru" form. The verb changes to the form where it ends at "te" and after it you put iru (imasu is from iru, which is the same but politer). The "te" can actually change to "de" in some cases, it depends on how the verb in question ends. Other kinds of words will add an extra 't' (duplication with the small tsu).

------

I think a good thing to start with are the Pimsleur casette tapes (which you can download as mp3... there's a topic for that). I also used www.japanese-online.com, which is also a good starter.

Good Luck

Suupaa-Mizetto

Ps:
The dictionary i use is J-QuickTrans (2000). It's quite usefull....
_________________

�@
�Y�����s������

jimmi,

i live in London, UK. im currently studying a super intensive japanese course at SOAS in the center of london (heard of it?).

i know there arent many courses available in england, and that european languages are given far more precedence. however, england's education system doesnt have a strong history in languages, so it can be difficult to study even the main ones (french, spanish, german).

if you live close by, i can send you some stuff or point you in the right direction if you are serious about learning japanese. i know that john moores university in liverpool offer japanese courses, and so does oxford university.

one tip with your studies. do not start with romaji. in fact, just ignore romaji altogether. it actually hinders rather than helps, because it makes you depend on a system which is pretty flawed and is of only real use to an ultra beginner (who has no intention of progressing with japanese study anyway).

first things first, learn hiragana and katakana. and i dont mean just recognise the characters and how to pronounce them. i mean know them like the back of your hand. i have people in my class who (after 4 months of intensive "4 hours a day, 5 days a week" lessons) still cant read kana (hiragana/katakana) fluently. they are basic building blocks to reading, writing and speaking japanese.

the best way to learn them is to seclude every character and practice writing and pronouncing them. after that, once youre happy that you can recognise each and every single character, its time to put the characters together into various simple words and practice. practice writing, recognising and pronouncing simple common words.

���͂悤�������܂�

����ɂ���

���悤�Ȃ�

����

�킽��

���Ȃ�

���肪�Ƃ��������܂�

�ǂ���

And so on. Once youve become comfortable with reading, writing and pronouncing these simple words, you're ready to begin studying japanese.

i know that its tempting to skip many things, especially at the beginning. i also taught myself before starting this course and it was very hard. the key is to stay motivated, and practice regularly. routine is the key. there is no sure fire way to learn japanese, some people require more time than others, because some people have better memorising abilities than others. some have better language sense than others (pertaining to grammar structures and particles, etc). however, no matter who you are, or how intelligent you are, it always comes down to practice. regular practice.

ive said enough, but i hope ive given you some handy tips (or anyone wanting to start learning japanese, for that matter). if you are close to london, please get in contact with me. japanese learning students are so few and far between, if it wasnt for my teachers, id swear i was teaching myself.

- anoney

Wow, when I'll have time I'll read carefully all this posts... seems to be very great.

To learn hiragana, my teacher told me to read the "hiragana time". It's is the news in Hiragana only. I don't understand what it's writen, but I am training myself to recognize the Hiragana (that's not so easy ).

anoney, you're so right though I can't understand how some of your fellow students didn't know kana after 4 months! It's not that much of work, they were probably very lazy (which i guess was your point)

When I started learning kana, I just did it for hobby and wasn't very stressy about it. I took some katakana charts on a holiday and sometimes i just practiced them while sittin' in the sun. I think I remembered them all after two weeks or so, but ofcourse I'd been looking at thembefore the holiday already.

For me the best way was just trying to remember row by row (like the "k" row: ka ki ku ke ko) and then writing it down. Everytime I learned a row, I added an extra one, so I'd keep practicing the previuos ones. Then I started making some words i knew like anoney suggested. The best tip would indeed be to keep practicing, because after I could write the whole chart without cheating, I didn't practice it for 1 month and i had to learn half of the chart all over (this happened more than once).
_________________

I just ran across some STRANGE katakana word in my homework today: �}���W���[��. I thought maybe it was a typo and it was really �}�l�W���[, but it didn't work well in context and seems to be a place or something. The context the sentence is "���͂悭�}���W���[���Ń��C��������ŁA�s�U��H�ׂ܂��B". Anyone have a clue?

eightysix wrote:

I just ran across some STRANGE katakana word in my homework today: �}���W���[��. I thought maybe it was a typo and it was really �}�l�W���[, but it didn't work well in context and seems to be a place or something. The context the sentence is "���͂悭�}���W���[���Ń��C��������ŁA�s�U��H�ׂ܂��B". Anyone have a clue?

Sounds like the Italian word "Mangiare" which I'm pretty sure means 'to eat.' So it must be the name of a restaurant. That's the only thing I can think of...

HTH,

������
_________________

"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams