I read a while ago that Steven Spielberg was supposed to direct this film for release in late 2001, but abandoned this project since he thought an Asian director would be more appropriate.

His plan was to cast Rika Okamoto as Sayuri and Maggie Cheung as Mameha.

I guess he never would have thought that a Caucasian director would take over and cast a Chinese as the lead.

Indeed.

You know, when I read the book, I have to admit... I was annoyed by Sayuri. She's... I duno... she's so passive, meh, and always the poor little victim... bleh. I can't remember one thing she really ever fought for or did by herself. Something where someone didn't have his or her fingers involved to get it going.

I still like Hatsumomo and Pumpkin best. Sayuri is just... annoying and pretty much useless in general. Hatsumomo is a bitch, yes, but a good one at that. From all the characters in the novel, IMO, Hatsumomo and Mameha left the biggest impact in the end. Pumpkin was quite good, but Sayuri... pfffff... Who's Sayuri? I really wonder why someone would make a movie based on that character.

If I was Sayuri's geisha-mother I'd give her a good flogging and not the others.

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the end was blah and just got dissapointed after so much fuss.

I read the book because I'll read anything with/concerning/slightestmentionof Japanese, and I agree with MusaMusa. The main part is interesting but the ending was just blase. SPOILER:Didn't really believe the thing with, what's his name, well the really high status guy. Somehow I would have preferred her with Noburo-san (especially after all of the stuff Mamahe went on about, their being destined for each other...)

Anyway, I'm surprised you liked Pumpkin, Toranaga, since I remember her being the most passive and mousy.

I wish this was more of an independant film, then for sure they would have Japanese actresses and perhaps speak only in Japanese. I like those kind of films so much more.

[/quote]

just a question: is this movie in english or japanese?

koi_ni_ochitano wrote:

just a question: is this movie in english or japanese?

English.

That's some crap. I absolutely loved the book and now this?! I'm truly upset. So stereotypical... I'm getting sick of that. This movie is totally going to ruin how wonderful the book is. BLEH.

though i;m chinese, i dont like zhang zhiyi, no one i know does and whos Gong Li?? Matsushima Nanako shouldve been given a main role

bmwracer wrote:

English.

If this movie is going to be in English, then one criteria in selecting the actresses had to be their ability to speak English, or at least convincingly mimic it. In watching a lot of dorama and Japanese movies, I haven't come across very many actresses who, when given lines to say in English, could smoothly recite them. I am not knocking them whatsoever--there is no reason why they should speak English in order to act in Japan--I'm just pointing out something I've observed. One actress who sounds like she might be OK in English is Yoshino Kimura. The only Japanese actress off the top of my head who I definitely know is fluent in English is Youki Kudoh. BTW, during the latter part of his illustrious career, the late great Toshiro Mifune took a number of English-speaking parts. He did not speak English, so he memorized his lines phonetically. The problem was, in at least one case it was so incomprehensible that the producer ended up dubbing him. And if you watch him in those films where he wasn't dubbed, it is painful to watch one of the giant actors of the twentieth century struggle with his lines. Anyway, back to the subject-- I think name-recognition in order to attract a larger audience is another factor. The three Chinese actresses are all known internationally as well as in the United States, at least certainly more than any young (20's to 30's) Japanese actress. More people know who Gong Li, Zhang Ziyi and Michelle Yeoh are than know who Nanako Matsushima is. And let's face it, the bottom line for these major studios is to put people in the seats; that's more important for them than the ability to act and certainly more important than being genuine. Let's face it, if you want to watch a movie about Japanese history or Japanese culture, then watch a movie dealing with those aspects that is made by Japanese. I mean, would you go see a movie about the American Civil War made by a French studio? I am not defending the choice of actresses for this movie; I just wanted to point out some factors that might have affected the selection process.

bmwracer wrote:

English.

If this movie is going to be in English, then one criteria in selecting the actresses had to be their ability to speak English, or at least convincingly mimic it. In watching a lot of dorama and Japanese movies, I haven't come across very many actresses who, when given lines to say in English, could smoothly recite them. I am not knocking them whatsoever--there is no reason why they should speak English in order to act in Japan--I'm just pointing out something I've observed. One actress who sounds like she might be OK in English is Yoshino Kimura. The only Japanese actress off the top of my head who I definitely know is fluent in English is Youki Kudoh. BTW, during the latter part of his illustrious career, the late great Toshiro Mifune took a number of English-speaking parts. He did not speak English, so he memorized his lines phonetically. The problem was, in at least one case it was so incomprehensible that the producer ended up dubbing him. And if you watch him in those films where he wasn't dubbed, it is painful to watch one of the giant actors of the twentieth century struggle with his lines. Anyway, back to the subject-- I think name-recognition in order to attract a larger audience is another factor. The three Chinese actresses are all known internationally as well as in the United States, at least certainly more than any young (20's to 30's) Japanese actress. More people know who Gong Li, Zhang Ziyi and Michelle Yeoh are than know who Nanako Matsushima is. And let's face it, the bottom line for these major studios is to put people in the seats; that's more important for them than the ability to act and certainly more important than being genuine. Let's face it, if you want to watch a movie about Japanese history or Japanese culture, then watch a movie dealing with those aspects that is made by Japanese. I mean, would you go see a movie about the American Civil War made by a French studio? I am not defending the choice of actresses for this movie; I just wanted to point out some factors that might have affected the selection process.

Although I expressed dissapointment in the fact that almost no Japanese actresses were selected...the book is written in English, by an American author, with Americanized content, and a veritable raft of inaccuracies. So...I'm not too upset with the way the movie is being made...it's totally disconnected from Japan, it's like an American fairy-tale version.

The only thing I won't like is the stereotypes the movie will probably perpetuate.
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I have done some thinking in regards to this issue, and this is what I think it's happening.

The reason why they cast three Chinese ( Michelle Yeoh is actually Malaysian, but went to HK for more money) people in the lead is because they want to actually make a film that will have success at the box office. It's no secret that a film with all African-American cast will mostly attract African-American audiences. This will be also be the case for memoirs... because the topic is extremely culturalistic ( well, a caucassian's fantasy about what Japanese geisha culture is....). In order to generate the most revenue possible, they had to cast actresses that are well known in the US. It it an unfortunate fact that those three are actually at the top of the list. I personally do not know any Japanese actress with international exposure that is well known in the US at the moment. It was probably the studio's choice to go with the three so they can actually make a profit.

I personally would have liked them to cast a Japanese actress for one of the three main roles.

I could really care less who they cast of the film. Remember these people are actors, playing roles. Could they have gotten Japanese actors, yes, but they won't because there are very few Japanese actresses with the kind of visability that these three hk/chinese actresses have. The film isn't going to be an arsty low budget art house pic. The studio's invested an estimated 85 million on this project and you can't blame them for trying to hedge their investment with names that they feel can draw a box office. When caucasians play immigrants in period pics no one really tries to rally the troops and cry foul, so why should this be any different? I'm just glad that the studio bothered to cast asians at all. Anyone remember the Good Earth, or Breakfast at Tiffanys, or Charlie Chan? Hell if anyone has the chance to watch The First Yank in Tokyo that's some truely offensive sh*t. If you look at most of the supporting cast for the film you'll find pleanty of Japanese actors rounding out the cast, but none of them have the mainstream american name recognition with which to sell the pic. If anyone blame the studios for using this source material. The book was a huge bestseller which meant a large investment just to acquire the movie rights, from then on it makes no sense to spend a couple million just to get the rights, and then hamstring the project with a 20-30 million dollar budget for an period piece. Still the biggest crime in the film is giving the directing reigns to Rob Marshal. well that's my 2 cents...

-g

kitakaze wrote:

Although I expressed dissapointment in the fact that almost no Japanese actresses were selected...the book is written in English, by an American author, with Americanized content, and a veritable raft of inaccuracies.

what do you mean by 'inaccuracies'? how much would you know about geisha life?

lisasan wrote:

what do you mean by 'inaccuracies'? how much would you know about geisha life?

I have a B.A. in Japanese history, if that means anything. Geisha aren't my area of speciality, but I have read books like: Geisha, A life, Geisha of Gion (both by Mineko Iwasaki, a geisha), Geisha by Liza Dalby (an anthropologist who became the only Westerner to be a geisha), and Autobiography of a Geisha, by Sayo Masuda.

Ask BMW...I'm not an expert, but I'm not talking out of my ass either.

Some of the problems were the events surrounding the loss of Sayuri's virginity (a big deal with geisha back then, apparently), harsh treatment of geisha (open to debate), the sexuality of geisha (one of the most misconstrued aspects in the West), and the license the movie will take with various aspects of dress, performance, and lifestyle of the geisha. Geisha from Tokyo and Kyoto have already criticized those parts of the film.
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-=kitakaze=-

Dalby's book is pretty good, I mean... she lived with them hehe. So's Lesley Downer's. Iwasaki was also the one Golden interviewed for MoaG, I think those two are still at war. Iwasaki wasn't happy that Golden took THAT much from what she told him (so she wrote her own book to set it straight).

I've heard geisha fans scream mainly about the wrong clothing (there's a photo of Sayuri meet the director in a park, it really looks bad, since Sayuri in that photo looks like a common girl in kimono, like you can see them each year at temples and shrines at the becoming of age ceremony, but not like a geisha), the absolutely wrong hairstyles (no photo so far shows the split peach for example), and that it seems that the director is even too dumb to have the right kimono on the right character (despite Golden describing everything in his book).

Another thing would be that Marshal said soemthing along the line that it's a tribute to the geisha and Asia. But last I checked geisha are something that only exists in Japan in that form. I also read that Zhang Ziyi wasn't Spielberg's choice for Sayuri, he didn't want her, but Marshal wanted her.

I think it's going to flop big time. There are no really big names in it, the average western moviegoer usually doesn't give a damn about a movie if there's no Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie in it. Only the geeks will watch it (yes, even I might torture myself with it, just like I did it with that Shogun rip-off called Last Samurai). You'll possibly even see geisha fans dressed up in full gear storm the premiere, threatening Marshal with their kanzashi

And I'll be honest... I don't want to hear a traditinal geisha song sung with either a Chinese accent or an English accent... yuck, sorry, but that's just wrong.

Rumor also has it that the traditional geisha make up has been "weakened" a bit, because it's "deemed to be too scary" for western audiences... That only makes me go "..."

Quote:

If this movie is going to be in English, then one criteria in selecting the actresses had to be their ability to speak English, or at least convincingly mimic it.

http://michelleyeoh.info/Movie/memoirsofageisha.html(02/03/05)
in order to generalize all actors' accents, the film uses so-called "British English with a Japanese accent."

All the non-japanese actors will have to speak english with a fake Japanese accent.

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One actress who sounds like she might be OK in English is Yoshino Kimura.

Yoshino is a bilingual actress born in London.

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And let's face it, the bottom line for these major studios is to put people in the seats; that's more important for them than the ability to act and certainly more important than being genuine.

I see no problem with using internationally renowned actors,but let's face it,they auditioned unknown actors in Japan,Korea,China and America,it is just weird only the well known actors are selected.

Interesting article in French,
http://www.objectif-cinema.fr/article.php3?id_article=2416&artsuite=1

Huh?...so Rob Marshall rejected Nakatani Miki?...!!

wtf...

I read the book a while ago and must say that i was surprised to see Zhang Ziyi choseen as Sayuri. I like her a lot, seen her in many movies. She may be a good choice for the movie, but I didn't know that the casted only Chinese women for the three main roles!!!!
Thanks for the info, I'm kind of upset too...

i've not read the book but judging by the mixed reactions here, 'geisha of gion' which i have read is probably better. this could be because it's written by someone who was part of that lifestyle.

i suppose the cast choice is a curious one given the setting of the film but as people have said here it's down to marketability.

i like zhang ziyi so i'd probably watch this movie if the opportunity arose but i wouldn't actively seek it out. i.e. in a rental store or somewhere...

bijin wrote:

Interesting article in French, http://www.objectif-cinema.fr/article.php3?id_article=2416&artsuite=1 Huh?...so Rob Marshall rejected Nakatani Miki as Sayuri?...!! wtf...

Although I adore Nakatani Miki, she's too old to play Sayuri. Though I think Zhang Ziyi is overrated, she's the right age.

Didn't know Kimura Yoshino spoke English, or I should say...

Kimura Yoshino



You ought to be in pictures,
PCM