Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 506 Location: Canada Country:
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:06 am Post subject:
supermidget wrote:
�E�E�E������I�E�E�Edatte ba yo!
Sometimes short questions can give big answers . Sorry if this was too much information. I hope it helps, if you have any more questions about it please ask.
I think there are two different ways in which you use ������.
Ex. 1:
�l�����čs��������B(Boku datte ikitai yo.)
"I want to go too, you know."
Ex. 2:
�ނ͍s�������Ȃ����āB(Kare ha ikitakunai n datte.)
"(He said that) he doesn't want to go."
The above ������ is derived from the second example, I believe.
When used at the end, the ������ actually derives from ���� as in:
�ނ͍s�������Ȃ��ƌ����Ă��܂����B(Kare ha ikitakunai n dato itteimashita.)
"He said that he doesn't want to go."
You can then analyze ������ and �� as separate entities.
������ is used to tell someone something for a second (or third or fourth or fifth, etc.) time.
Situation:
A mother says to a young child:
���Z������@������_���B(Oniichan wo tataicha dame.)
"Don't hit your brother."
But then the child hits his brother again. The mother would then say something like,
�@������_�������ĂI(Tataicha dame datteba!)
"I told you not to hit your brother!"
So, when you add �� on to the end of that, you get more emphasis.
It does, however, sound a little countryside-ish when you do this.
Anyway, without context as to why the person said ������, there really is no way to know whether to parse the phrase as:
�����Ă@and ��
or
������ and ��
so, don't take my word 100% for it.
HTH,
������ _________________
"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams
Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 406 Location: ������ Country:
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:36 pm Post subject:
mizune wrote:
Perfect! That makes sense with the context I was working in...
And do onomonopea dictionaries actually exist? O_o
onomatopoeia
Yes they exist I never used one but I'm sure they exist, there's many kinds of dictionaries at my university... like one solely for adverbs. I would guess the onomatopoeia dict's would be pretty damn big since Jpns has so many of those words... _________________
Joined: 05 Feb 2005 Posts: 22 Location: Kaiyoudai, Tokyo Country:
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:03 pm Post subject: Expressing Simultaneous Events
Okay, I've know for a while know about using aida �� as a subordinating conjunction (is that the correct grammar term?), but I recently learned of two particles that seem to accomplish the same purpose.
�Ȃ��� - when attached to the �A�p�` form of a verb, indicates that the two clauses occur at the same time. Isn't this the same as using �Ԃ�?
���� - also when attached to the �A�p�` form of a verb, indicates that the second clause occurs simultaneously, but not with the same start and end points. Instead, the second clause occurs at a time frame shorter than the first clause. But again, isn't this the same as using ��?
Some clarification as to the nuances and difference in using these terms would be awesome! Thanks!
Joined: 04 Oct 2005 Posts: 211 Location: Indonesia Country:
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:44 am Post subject:
i hope this is the right thread to post this question. sorry if it's not
i've been wondering what's the difference between kanto accent and kansai accent? i heard kanto and kansai have different dialect but i don't know what makes it different dialect, so.. can anyone explain to me please? thanks before..
Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Posts: 10291 Location: Matsuhama-cho, Ashiya-shi, Hyogo-ken, Japan Country:
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Expressing Simultaneous Events
vega12 wrote:
Okay, I've know for a while know about using aida �� as a subordinating conjunction (is that the correct grammar term?), but I recently learned of two particles that seem to accomplish the same purpose.
�Ȃ��� - when attached to the �A�p�` form of a verb, indicates that the two clauses occur at the same time. Isn't this the same as using �Ԃ�?
���� - also when attached to the �A�p�` form of a verb, indicates that the second clause occurs simultaneously, but not with the same start and end points. Instead, the second clause occurs at a time frame shorter than the first clause. But again, isn't this the same as using ��?
Some clarification as to the nuances and difference in using these terms would be awesome! Thanks!
Joined: 04 Oct 2005 Posts: 211 Location: Indonesia Country:
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:23 pm Post subject:
hello everyone..!! i would like to ask the meaning of "itsudatte".. and in what condition do we use it, what makes it turn into "itsudatta". and does it have any difference with "itsu" or "itsuka"? i've been searching for the answer but my japanese language books don't seem to have the answer
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 506 Location: Canada Country:
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:59 am Post subject:
kurokage wrote:
hello everyone..!! i would like to ask the meaning of "itsudatte".. and in what condition do we use it, what makes it turn into "itsudatta". and does it have any difference with "itsu" or "itsuka"? i've been searching for the answer but my japanese language books don't seem to have the answer
thanks before!
'Itsudatte' is basically the same as ���ł� (itsudemo), or "anytime, always."
Ex.:
�ނ͂������Ă���Ȃ��Ƃ������Ă����B(Kare ha, itsudatte sonna koto wo itteiru yo.)
"He's always saying those kinds of things."
'Itsudatte' will never change into 'itsudatta'.
You can, however, have the form of 'itsudatta', though.
Ex.:
�c���F ������ɗ��Ȃ������ˁB(Dousoukai ni konakatta n dane.)
�����F ����H���������H(Are? Itsu datta?)
Tanaka: So you didn't come to the school reunioun, eh?
Shimizu: Huh? When was it?
As you see above, it simple means "when was (something)."
HTH,
������ _________________
"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams
I am currently moving on to learning about conjugation of verbs in the plain form, e.g. taberu/tabenai/tabemasu, matsu/machimasu/matanai etc.
My question is: When do I know to use taberu �H�ׂ� instead of tabemasu �H�ׂ܂�? My Japanese book says they mean the same, i.e. present affirmative of the verb "to eat" but does not tell me which is more appropriate in what instances.
Oh, another question is, do I have to memorise ALL the dictionary/root forms of verbs or is there a way to know it by looking at the conjugated verb?
Joined: 04 Oct 2005 Posts: 211 Location: Indonesia Country:
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:30 am Post subject:
kokuou wrote:
'Itsudatte' is basically the same as ���ł� (itsudemo), or "anytime, always."
Ex.:
�ނ͂������Ă���Ȃ��Ƃ������Ă����B(Kare ha, itsudatte sonna koto wo itteiru yo.)
"He's always saying those kinds of things."
'Itsudatte' will never change into 'itsudatta'.
You can, however, have the form of 'itsudatta', though.
Ex.:
�c���F ������ɗ��Ȃ������ˁB(Dousoukai ni konakatta n dane.)
�����F ����H���������H(Are? Itsu datta?)
Tanaka: So you didn't come to the school reunioun, eh?
Shimizu: Huh? When was it?
As you see above, it simple means "when was (something)."
HTH,
������
oooooh.. sou desu ne.. wakarimashita!! thank you so much for the explanation. so itsudatte and itsu datta are completely 2 different things? i thought they mean just the same but different condition, like "itsu datte" is for present and "itsu datta" is for the past.
thank you!
Joined: 04 Oct 2005 Posts: 211 Location: Indonesia Country:
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:40 am Post subject:
ribi wrote:
Hi, I have 2 questions.
I am currently moving on to learning about conjugation of verbs in the plain form, e.g. taberu/tabenai/tabemasu, matsu/machimasu/matanai etc.
My question is: When do I know to use taberu �H�ׂ� instead of tabemasu �H�ׂ܂�? My Japanese book says they mean the same, i.e. present affirmative of the verb "to eat" but does not tell me which is more appropriate in what instances.
Oh, another question is, do I have to memorise ALL the dictionary/root forms of verbs or is there a way to know it by looking at the conjugated verb?
Thanks!
hello, Ribi!
well i think "taberu" and "tabemasu" mean the same, but "tabemasu" is just more polite than "Taberu". you might need to use "Tabemasu" to speak with your teacher or anyone who is older than you. "Taberu" is usually used when a person is talking to a friend.
for me personally, i just memorise the dictionary form, since whenever a verb is changed into another form, you just have to erase the -ru into -nai, -masho or else. for example, the root form "Taberu" will change to "Tabenai", "Tabemasho"<--(it's exactly from "Tabemasu", i think). as you see, the "ru" turned into "nai" and "masho" so you just need to erase the "ru".
correct me if i'm wrong, 'coz i'm still learning too.. just thought maybe i can help
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. Sorry if this was too much information. I hope it helps, if you have any more questions about it please ask.
I never used one but I'm sure they exist, there's many kinds of dictionaries at my university... like one solely for adverbs. I would guess the onomatopoeia dict's would be pretty damn big since Jpns has so many of those words...
. I'll try to direct all future language related questions here. 
sou desu ne.. wakarimashita!! 
