Geezer wrote:

Eve, The rule of thumb is... folks who've watched Taiga's in the past and have enjoyed them, disliked Atsuhime. On the other hand, those who'd never watched Taiga's in the past, or who just plain hated the few minutes of Taigas that they'd seen... thought Atsuhime was wonderful. Myself... I disliked the series. (Okay, I'm trying to be politic. I found Atsuhime to be insipid. Insufferable. I not only stopped watching after a dozen episodes or so, I physically threw away the discs I'd recorded those episodes on. I wouldn't have'em in the house.) That said... I'm willing to bet that you'd be the one to break that rule of thumb. I think you and the bf would like it. Think of it as a Morning Asadora set in the 1800s, rather than a Taiga. As to what I'm watching now... I'm half way through a light bit-o-nonsense titled Manhattan Love Story

I don't like to watch series that are too long and I'm not really into historical stuff. Atsuhime was the first taiga I watched so I can't say that I liked or disliked taigas specifically before then. I would agree with calling it a historical asadora though. I've only seen up to ep 13, and while I do want to finish it, I can never bring myself to watch more. It's too long!

Love Shuffle ep 7 was so good! I want to watch some more Itsumo Futari de but it's late and my sister's sleeping. I hate sharing a room. At least I managed to finish the first two episodes today.
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Just started Slow Dance. The beginning was a bit... ummm. slow but it seems to be picking up.
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Grungir wrote:

Just started Slow Dance. The beginning was a bit... ummm. slow but it seems to be picking up.

If I recall, sadacori referred to it as "Slow Trance."


EDIT: Heh, I was the first to use that phrase: http://jdorama.com/viewtopic.php?p=620659#620659

Eve

I know you like Taigas. That's why I think you might be the "rule" breaker here.

Slow Dance

Man. Everyone talks about that show being "slow".

I really enjoyed it. And I didn't find it to be any "slower" than any other romantic comedy. I've always had the feeling that people were influenced by the title.
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Geezer wrote:

Eve I know you like Taigas. That's why I think you might be the "rule" breaker here. Slow Dance Man. Everyone talks about that show being "slow". I really enjoyed it. And I didn't find it to be any "slower" than any other romantic comedy. I've always had the feeling that people were influenced by the title.

I didnt think Slow Dance was slow at all. I thought it was delightful. It made my Top Ten list!

Now after all these posts Im going to have to pop in Atsu-hime today and decide for myself!
Have you taken a look at Ten Urara, Geez?
Ive never watched an entire Asadora.
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I didn't like Slow Dance that much. It looked like it was going to be good in the beginning but it didn't end up being that great to me. Mainly because I didn't care about most (all?) of the couples. The one Hirosue Ryoko ended up with seemed totally random and just out of the blue for me. I didn't get it.
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Eve wrote:

I didnt think Slow Dance was slow at all. I thought it was delightful. It made my Top Ten list! Now after all these posts Im going to have to pop in Atsu-hime today and decide for myself! Have you taken a look at Ten Urara, Geez? Ive never watched an entire Asadora.

Be sure to allow yourself 4 or 5 episodes of Atsu Hime. In the beginning they introduce tons of characters and they all look alike. There is no need to remember them. Around ep 4 or so the story begins to shape up with just the main characters and it becomes easy to follow it then.

Ten Urara was broadcast here at least 10 years ago. I enjoyed it a lot.
But since my likes seem to be at odds with most folks here that may not be a good omen.

Geezer wrote:

Eve, The rule of thumb is... folks who've watched Taiga's in the past and have enjoyed them, disliked Atsuhime. On the other hand, those who'd never watched Taiga's in the past, or who just plain hated the few minutes of Taigas that they'd seen... thought Atsuhime was wonderful. Myself... I disliked the series. (Okay, I'm trying to be politic. I found Atsuhime to be insipid. Insufferable. I not only stopped watching after a dozen episodes or so, I physically threw away the discs I'd recorded those episodes on. I wouldn't have'em in the house.) That said... I'm willing to bet that you'd be the one to break that rule of thumb. I think you and the bf would like it. Think of it as a Morning Asadora set in the 1800s, rather than a Taiga.

I don't understand. I haven't watched many Taigas... just two I think, Atsu-Hime being the second. What is the Taiga standard?

I enjoy Asadoras... what's the make-up for those?

All I know is that Taiga's are based on Historical events... and Asadoras are shorter. I definitely need to be educated.

On Topic: I'm on epi 16 of Atsu-Hime. Man, I cried through the last two episodes.
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IMO Atsu Hime is one of the greatest dramas to emerge from the Japanese drama empire. Wonderful vistas of Japan as it must have appeared in the Edo period. superb acting. A smooth flowing story line.
Excellent period costumes (and hairdos). I could not care less if it does not have the requisite amount of bloodshed and grunting. If that is all that validates a historically accurate drama, that is not saying much about the Edo period inhabitants. I suggest that there must have been some gentle folks as portrayed by Princess Atsu and that they too have a story to tell. A story that IMO is much more interesting with all it's palace intrigues than the endless grunting of unshaved barbarians in barely visible darkened rooms. Give me more Atsu Himes and I will become a taiga follower too.

All these conflicting yet strong opinions have me intrigued.
I'll be starting it tonight.
Thanx, Ralph, I'll take your tip about watching enough to start.
Its gonna be interesting...
I hope...

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Ralph

This whole "bloodshed and grunting" thing is your own creation. That's the opinion you formed after watching a few scenes, and you've decided that that's all a Taiga is about, and what all Taiga fans want.

You are wrong. I wish you would stop saying it. It's a straw-man argument.

Wynter

An asadora drama is pretty long... it's just doled out in short installments. The episodes are about 15 minutes in length, but they are aired 5 days a week. And there are usually around 125 to 150 of those 15 minute episodes.

The TV guys aim the asadora as housewives who have just shoved their family out the door to work or school, and they need 15 or 20 minutes to themselves before getting on with the rest of their day.

It's usually the story of a young girl as she grows up and goes out into the world. It is the triumph of the plucky. She faces many many hardships, but because of her inner strength as a woman, and with the help of her family and friends (though mostly family)... she tends to win out against all odds.

Churasan was an asadora.

My favorite asadora was Suzuran.

A Taiga is a historical drama. But it's a bit more than just a drama set in the past. The idea is to take a great historical figure, or event, and show all the different things, and relationships, that led up to that historical moment, (or made that historical personage who or what he was) and why it had such a huge effect on the course of the nation.

Minimoto created the Samuri class.

Hojo Tokimuni saved the nation from the Great Kahn.

Nobunaga attained military control over the entire nation.

Tokugawa created a dynasty that lasted 250 years.

How'd they do it. Who helped them. Who tried to stop them.

As opposed to:

Moe of "Suzuran" survived being abandoned at a train station as a baby, grew up, survived the war, and raised her family.

Haruka of "Kaze no Haruka" grew up, went out into the world and fashioned a career for herself. Then returned to her home town, kept on working, and got married.

And Urara of "Ten Urara" battled the odds and became a Carpenter... even though the other Carpenters didn't think a young girl should be a Carpenter. But she had pluck and stick-to-it-tiveness.

And of course... Eri of "Churasan" left her island, became a nurse, met up with her childhood sweetheart, battled ill health, and became a mom.

A Taiga looks at the broad scope of history by focusing on the people who made that history. (People or events that "changed the world".)

The Asadora looks at an individual creating her own life.
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Nice descriptions, Geez.

Taigas are an in depth historical peek at the big moments.
I watch Korean and Chinese series that are similar, though I dont know what they call them.
Any story worth telling is worth telling in full IMO.

I love the petty details. After all, what is life but a compilation of all the petty details.
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Eve,

It's the petty details that make history... human.
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Geezer wrote:

Wynter The TV guys aim the asadora as housewives who have just shoved their family out the door to work or school, and they need 15 or 20 minutes to themselves before getting on with the rest of their day. It's usually the story of a young girl as she grows up and goes out into the world. It is the triumph of the plucky. She faces many many hardships, but because of her inner strength as a woman, and with the help of her family and friends (though mostly family)... she tends to win out against all odds.

Okay, this fits what I've seen. I've seen two asadoras... or was it three? And your description is exactly what I witnessed when watching.

Quote:

A Taiga is a historical drama. But it's a bit more than just a drama set in the past. The idea is to take a great historical figure, or event, and show all the different things, and relationships, that led up to that historical moment, (or made that historical personage who or what he was) and why it had such a huge effect on the course of the nation.

Ahhhhhhhhh okies.

Quote:

A Taiga looks at the broad scope of history by focusing on the people who made that history. (People or events that "changed the world".) The Asadora looks at an individual creating her own life.

THANK YOU, Geez, I totally get it now. And now I totally see what you mean when you said that Atsu-Hime felt more like an asadora than a Taiga. I think you're right.

Hmmm... I'm still enjoying it, though. I don't know if I'm enjoying it because I enjoy asadoras, or because I haven't seen any solid (good) Taigas yet. Hmm.
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Wynter

I'm glad that made sense. Usually when I write more than a paragraph at a time I trip over my own thoughts and people come back saying... "Huh?"

Re: Taigas. If you can ever get hold of a copy of "Aoi" the story of Tokugawa... that's one of my all time favorites.

"Toshie & Matsu" is terrific as well.

Really... I've only seen 3 that I really disliked. Atsuhime, Shinsengumi, and Yoshitsune. The others have all (to a greater or lesser extent) been fascinating.
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Doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks, if you enjoy it, it's all good Drama watching ain't a competition.

BTW, Geez's post above has some fairly significant spoilers in it...

I agree with Ralph. Why is everyone jumping on a soapbox to explain to him what he already knows? Do you guys think you are the only smart people in the world? Wynter, I know you're a teacher, but really...is this the place for blackboard definitions?

I don't get Taiga drama here in New York (where people who are watching what they don't really like have the sense to turn it off and watch MSNBC or TCM or something else they like), but my husband and I loved Atsu Hime, and now I would like to find the one they did a few years ago on Musashi, as I just finished the almost 1,000 page novel about him by Eiji Yoshikawa and just watched the three movie trilogy starring Toshiro Mifume.

Don't you see? You are proving your own point when you go into this heavily detailed blah blah about what a Taiga drama is? This one is about the young woman who married the 13th Shogun. She really existed, and he really existed, and they spun the story completely around her, to show how she became who she was, who were the people who influenced her, and what were the political machinations swirling around her at the time she was trying to protect the Shogunate.

My husband, as I think I said in my last defense, is an expert on the period portrayed in this taiga drama. He has read everything about it, knows every historical character, is a very serious and intellectual student of many aspects of world history. He doesn't usually watch romance and sentiment, but in Atsu Hime, it didn't bother him. He knew what was going to happen before it happened in the outside world....knew every historical character. I recently read a biography of Saigo, so I knew a lot about what was coming also. But the whole drama was excellent...we raced to the mailbox every two weeks to see if the disc had come, and we watched it as a well-anticipated treat. Sure, they schmaltzed it up a little, and why not? They did it brilliantly and believably, and it was all very Japanese and marvelous. And she was superb...she just became the Princess so perfectly, I don't even want to see her in anything else. She is enshrined in this role. All the acting was great...many actors I knew already, of course.

We all know that Ralph is not going to like historical drama that switches from one battle scene to the next. That's why I never sent him Olivier's marvelous Henry V. I think what he's saying is, why can't a historical drama be more than just battles and swordsmanship and plotting and such. That is not enough for him. He wants the more human touches, the domestic side that illuminates another aspect of the culture. There are many who would agree with him.

So what are you telling people who like it? I don't follow the forums until Ralph draws my attention to something. Are you saying we don't have good taste? That we're not as smart or as discerning in our televisual tastes as you are? That we can't ponificate and bloviate about our superior opinions and endless knowledge?

I thought forums were supposed to be for friendly sharing and fun. The only forum I loved was a New York based one on the asadora Sakura. We drooled, we loved, we argued, we agonized, we supported each other's foibles, and most important, we had a ball doing it. Why don't you guys lighten up?
Life is too short for all this one-upsmanship, and believe me, I know that better than anyone.

The thing I love most about this forum is nobody ever responds to me. I am not even a fly speck on your firmament. I enjoy that a lot...after all, I'm a New Yorker, and we tend not to care what other people think of us.

Anyway, I hope you all enjoy the next taiga, whatever it is.

Geezer wrote:

Wynter I'm glad that made sense. Usually when I write more than a paragraph at a time I trip over my own thoughts and people come back saying... "Huh?" Re: Taigas. If you can ever get hold of a copy of "Aoi" the story of Tokugawa... that's one of my all time favorites. "Toshie & Matsu" is terrific as well. Really... I've only seen 3 that I really disliked. Atsuhime, Shinsengumi, and Yoshitsune. The others have all (to a greater or lesser extent) been fascinating.

Shinsengumi is the only other one I've watched and I enjoyed it.

Anime Dad wrote:

Doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks, if you enjoy it, it's all good Drama watching ain't a competition.

Of course it isn't. I wasn't aware that anyone was saying that it is.

harriet wrote:

I agree with Ralph. Why is everyone jumping on a soapbox to explain to him what he already knows? Do you guys think you are the only smart people in the world? Wynter, I know you're a teacher, but really...is this the place for blackboard definitions?

Wait wait, I didn't once say anything you're implying. I asked for a definition of what the two were because I don't know the difference, and someone answered. I didn't jump on a soapbox. I think you misread. I LIKE Atsu-Hime. I agreed that it was like an asadora. This was NOT an insult.

Quote:

Don't you see? You are proving your own point when you go into this heavily detailed blah blah about what a Taiga drama is?

Who are you addressing here?

Quote:

So what are you telling people who like it? I don't follow the forums until Ralph draws my attention to something. Are you saying we don't have good taste? That we're not as smart or as discerning in our televisual tastes as you are? That we can't ponificate and bloviate about our superior opinions and endless knowledge?

Ummm... in Geez's defense, I don't think he was attacking... because if he was, he would be attacking me as well. Ralph knows that he and I have similar tastes, and Geez knows that his taste and mine sometimes don't meet up... but I've never felt like I was stupid because he disagreed with me.

Quote:

Why don't you guys lighten up?

If you have a problem with what someone said on the forum, you should direct a PM to that person to discuss the issue. Personally I'm hurt by your post because you're addressing generally and I know I didn't post anything you're accusing me of. The reason I'm responding to your post is because you addressed me in the beginning... and I'm not sure why. I would never say anything to hurt Ralph or his taste in dramas. I thought he knew that.
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Geezer wrote:

Eve, It's the petty details that make history... human.

Yes, it is.

@ HArriet- WHat attack?
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Wynter wrote:

Of course it isn't. I wasn't aware that anyone was saying that it is..

All I was trying to say was, it doesn't matter if you like something that somebody (or even everybody, for that matter) doesn't like. It's all a matter of taste.