kami_kaze wrote:

oh yes.. you can see in three kingdom where Zhuge Liang or others char uses the plot of snatch/burn enemies food supply. The soldiers will decrease motivation and even causes a rebel. It's certain one of the key factors to win a war.

Snatching is not recommended in war since those food are grains so it's very very bulky.Troublesome to transport.Chances of you getting spotted by the enemies are close to 100%.Burning is much better as it's way faster and more efficient.No food means no morale but that might not mean that you won the war.If you ever heard of the "desperate ground" tactic then you'll know the consquences of starving a platoon of soldiers.

Food supply in war to me is a big big risk.No doubt you need food but to place it right at the back of your marching soldiers?!?It makes it easy for an ambush...especially if you are fighting in mountainous areas like the Cheng Du area.
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ben_galahad wrote:

Oh!?!That means all rabbits had more stamina than normal horses then!!! What Cao Cao seems to be wrong but if he had given the emperor a say then he's in the wrong.Emperor Xian was too young and too inexperienced to rule a country.Besides...the country's in war and Cao Cao just want to unite the country again...this time in his rule.I see nothing wrong...it's not as if he had sunk the country into further chaos by controlling the emperor.

Whatever his intentions were, he went about everything the wrong way. The emperor might have been young but he gave him absolutely no say and just had him there to sign off on his orders. And he took the capital when he shouldn't have took it. I believe he forced someone to kill themself where the emperor was at? Or something like that. I can't remember anymore lol

Jaegal_Maut wrote:

Thats why the human is the most dangerous being in earth. They have desire for more power. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. But he was named the hero of chaos ne~?? That means he saved people from chaotic situation but the method is rather bad.

Maybe he's the hero of chaos cause he starts the chaos?

ThyGriever wrote:

Maybe he's the hero of chaos cause he starts the chaos?

Quote:

Whatever his intentions were, he went about everything the wrong way. The emperor might have been young but he gave him absolutely no say and just had him there to sign off on his orders. And he took the capital when he shouldn't have took it. I believe he forced someone to kill themself where the emperor was at? Or something like that. I can't remember anymore lol

Maybe at first his intention was honest but as time flowed and he gained power, his mind became covered with dark intention as he bacame addicted to power.. So he abused his power to gain everything that he wanted..
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Jaegal_Maut wrote:

Maybe at first his intention was honest but as time flowed and he gained power, his mind became covered with dark intention as he bacame addicted to power.. So he abused his power to gain everything that he wanted..

Puppet emperors are not uncommon in history.Even nowadays some countries' presidents are rather powerless compared to the Prime Minister.Everyone will eventually get power-hungry as they owned more land.It's inevitable.Can't single out Cao Meng De.
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Love conquers hatred just as water subdues fire!!!But some try to extinguish a bonfire with just a cup of water,which obviously is not enough.So instead of saying one can't love,one should try harder to love.

--- Mencius(�Ўq)

ben_galahad wrote:

Puppet emperors are not uncommon in history.Even nowadays some countries' presidents are rather powerless compared to the Prime Minister.Everyone will eventually get power-hungry as they owned more land.It's inevitable.Can't single out Cao Meng De.

I'll have to disagree that it's inevitable. It happens a lot but most of these "usurpers" are complimented on how good a job they're doing. It's morally wrong to make a "puppet" emperor despite what your intentions might be.

Jaegal_Maut wrote:

Maybe at first his intention was honest but as time flowed and he gained power, his mind became covered with dark intention as he bacame addicted to power.. So he abused his power to gain everything that he wanted..

yep. At first it appeared he was saving the emperor but then he started abusing his authority.

ben_galahad wrote:

Puppet emperors are not uncommon in history.Even nowadays some countries' presidents are rather powerless compared to the Prime Minister.Everyone will eventually get power-hungry as they owned more land.It's inevitable.Can't single out Cao Meng De.

No. I think not everyone will be like that. The key is human moral and conscience. A person who are suppose to be the leader should have this.


[/quote]
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Well of course people think that morals are needed to successfully rule a kingdom.But at those times of war...trying to expend your kingdom and stay loyal to the royal court isn't something easy to achieve.There are many successful rulers who used a "puppet emperor",the few most notably are Cao Cao and Japanese warlord Oda Nobunaga.And what do they get from doing that?Population support and infinite power!!!At those times the citizens are starving and poor.They follow anyone who can give them a place to live in and ample food to survive the day.Cao Cao's abuse of the emperor might seem to us as a lack of moral consicence but the population trusted him because he stands the best chance to unite China and end the chaos.The emperor then is too weak and young to make such big decisions.Even if Cao Cao did not pester him the population might turn against him since he's a useless emperor who can't make their lives better.
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corruption of power can be so scary.... it could change peoples even with the most kind-hearted ones.
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kami_kaze wrote:

corruption of power can be so scary.... it could change peoples even with the most kind-hearted ones.

Not so.Liu Bei is a good example.Even Cao Cao and Sun Quan can be used as examples.When each of them proclaimed themselves emperors of Shu,Wei and Wu respectively...the amount of power they process is unbelievable.Yes they are ruthless with their enemies...in some cases even killing the innocent citizens unlucky enough to be standing in their path...but towards their own citizens they showed compassion and sincerity.A human had two sides.One is reserved for his loved ones while one is reserved for his bitter enemies.
_________________

Love conquers hatred just as water subdues fire!!!But some try to extinguish a bonfire with just a cup of water,which obviously is not enough.So instead of saying one can't love,one should try harder to love.

--- Mencius(�Ўq)

ben_galahad wrote:

Not so.Liu Bei is a good example.Even Cao Cao and Sun Quan can be used as examples.When each of them proclaimed themselves emperors of Shu,Wei and Wu respectively...the amount of power they process is unbelievable.Yes they are ruthless with their enemies...in some cases even killing the innocent citizens unlucky enough to be standing in their path...but towards their own citizens they showed compassion and sincerity.A human had two sides.One is reserved for his loved ones while one is reserved for his bitter enemies.

a very contraversial (sp?) topic, yes?

ben_galahad wrote:

Not so.Liu Bei is a good example.Even Cao Cao and Sun Quan can be used as examples.When each of them proclaimed themselves emperors of Shu,Wei and Wu respectively...the amount of power they process is unbelievable.Yes they are ruthless with their enemies...in some cases even killing the innocent citizens unlucky enough to be standing in their path...but towards their own citizens they showed compassion and sincerity.A human had two sides.One is reserved for his loved ones while one is reserved for his bitter enemies.

Hmm, thats a good point, I think thats the beauty of human relation. Could be very different towarsd the same being (which is human).
Its something about sense of belonging of each officer and citizen that makes the Kingdom powerful, the more they have sense of belonging to their Kingdom the more sacrifices they will make only to benefit their Kingdom
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ThyGriever wrote:

a very contraversial (sp?) topic, yes?

Makes sense.This will go on and on and on.There's no end to it.Let's find something new to talk about...

The Five Tiger Generals of Shu,Wei and Wu...

Shu:Need I say?Everyone knows these five...well almost...
Wei:Zhang Liao,Zhang He,Xu Huang,Yu Jin and Yue Jin
Wu:Zhou Tai,Gan Ning,Ling Tong,Ding Feng and Xu Sheng

Is there anyone in these fifteen that you think does not deserve their place?Or there's someone more deserving for that spot?

I personally felt that Hao Zhao and Li Dian of Wei are hard done by Cao Cao's decision regarding his Five Tiger Generals.Maybe it's because he proclaimed them just way too early.(he gave them those ranks before his defeat at Chi Bi)Or maybe Hao Zhao did not get enough trust from Cao Cao.Who knows?
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Love conquers hatred just as water subdues fire!!!But some try to extinguish a bonfire with just a cup of water,which obviously is not enough.So instead of saying one can't love,one should try harder to love.

--- Mencius(�Ўq)

ben_galahad wrote:

Makes sense.This will go on and on and on.There's no end to it.Let's find something new to talk about... The Five Tiger Generals of Shu,Wei and Wu... Shu:Need I say?Everyone knows these five...well almost... Wei:Zhang Liao,Zhang He,Xu Huang,Yu Jin and Yue Jin Wu:Zhou Tai,Gan Ning,Ling Tong,Ding Feng and Xu Sheng Is there anyone in these fifteen that you think does not deserve their place?Or there's someone more deserving for that spot? I personally felt that Hao Zhao and Li Dian of Wei are hard done by Cao Cao's decision regarding his Five Tiger Generals.Maybe it's because he proclaimed them just way too early.(he gave them those ranks before his defeat at Chi Bi)Or maybe Hao Zhao did not get enough trust from Cao Cao.Who knows?

gosh im having trouble remembering who's who! I think Shu obviously works. Wei, I think works but what about Dian Wei? He's supposedly fearsome and died protecting Cao Cao was it? Maybe his life span was too short. Wu works but i forgot about Ding Feng and Xu Sheng. The first 3 have many notable achievements. I'm trying to remember some others that might have been left out..

ThyGriever wrote:

gosh im having trouble remembering who's who! I think Shu obviously works. Wei, I think works but what about Dian Wei? He's supposedly fearsome and died protecting Cao Cao was it? Maybe his life span was too short. Wu works but i forgot about Ding Feng and Xu Sheng. The first 3 have many notable achievements. I'm trying to remember some others that might have been left out..

Dian Wei...yeah mighty warrior who scarificed himself to save Cao Cao from Jia Xu's trap.That's very touching and noble by him.And to think that Cao Cao found him amongst a group of foot soldiers under Xiahou Dun.

There are many in Wu that are left out.Zhu Huan is a good example.he's something like Xu Sheng.Intelligent and good in fighting.But just average in both.

Shu's most controversial entry is Huang Zhong instead of Wei Yan.Wei Yan is such a loyal man.Ever willing to sacrifice his life to protect Pang Tong and Zhuge Liang.Just too bad that he never gotten much credit from his work.Sad case...
_________________

Love conquers hatred just as water subdues fire!!!But some try to extinguish a bonfire with just a cup of water,which obviously is not enough.So instead of saying one can't love,one should try harder to love.

--- Mencius(�Ўq)

ben_galahad wrote:

Dian Wei...yeah mighty warrior who scarificed himself to save Cao Cao from Jia Xu's trap.That's very touching and noble by him.And to think that Cao Cao found him amongst a group of foot soldiers under Xiahou Dun. There are many in Wu that are left out.Zhu Huan is a good example.he's something like Xu Sheng.Intelligent and good in fighting.But just average in both. Shu's most controversial entry is Huang Zhong instead of Wei Yan.Wei Yan is such a loyal man.Ever willing to sacrifice his life to protect Pang Tong and Zhuge Liang.Just too bad that he never gotten much credit from his work.Sad case...

probably because the writer thinks Wei Yan is a traitor. Some say he isn't. In the most popular R3K book, Wei Yan backstabs Shu when they need him most apparently. Who kills him? Jiang Wei? Whatever the case, his controversy probably keeps him from making it on the list. However, his fighting abilities are unquestionable.

Btw, what do you think of Jiang Wei? I admire him because of his ability to keep holding on to Shu to the very end. I think he was the only one capable leader after most of the main officers died.

ThyGriever wrote:

probably because the writer thinks Wei Yan is a traitor. Some say he isn't. In the most popular R3K book, Wei Yan backstabs Shu when they need him most apparently. Who kills him? Jiang Wei? Whatever the case, his controversy probably keeps him from making it on the list. However, his fighting abilities are unquestionable. Btw, what do you think of Jiang Wei? I admire him because of his ability to keep holding on to Shu to the very end. I think he was the only one capable leader after most of the main officers died.

Wei Yan can't take the fact that despite serving Shu for so long he got a rank smaller than Fei Wei...a official that served Shu for like than 10 years.Got to look from his point of view.Do you think he felt that he deserved to be under someone so much junior than him?

Jiang Wei is a great general.Strong and smart.But ambitious as well.After he realised that Liu Chan's gonna destroy the Han Empire...he conspired with Zhong Hui of Wei and tried to kill Liu Chan.But two man against how many?!?That's a silly thing to do...
_________________

Love conquers hatred just as water subdues fire!!!But some try to extinguish a bonfire with just a cup of water,which obviously is not enough.So instead of saying one can't love,one should try harder to love.

--- Mencius(�Ўq)

ThyGriever wrote:

Btw, what do you think of Jiang Wei? I admire him because of his ability to keep holding on to Shu to the very end. I think he was the only one capable leader after most of the main officers died.

Yes. I agree, Jiang Wei is a very capable and smart person , even Zhuge liang had a hard time convincing him in.

ben_galahad wrote:

But ambitious as well.After he realised that Liu Chan's gonna destroy the Han Empire...he conspired with Zhong Hui of Wei and tried to kill Liu Chan.But two man against how many?!?That's a silly thing to do...

Really?? I don't know this.. Knowledge up!!
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ben_galahad wrote:

Wei Yan can't take the fact that despite serving Shu for so long he got a rank smaller than Fei Wei...a official that served Shu for like than 10 years.Got to look from his point of view.Do you think he felt that he deserved to be under someone so much junior than him? Jiang Wei is a great general.Strong and smart.But ambitious as well.After he realised that Liu Chan's gonna destroy the Han Empire...he conspired with Zhong Hui of Wei and tried to kill Liu Chan.But two man against how many?!?That's a silly thing to do...

I agree I'd be made like Wei Yan, but to show loyalty to your kingdom means taking whatever you get. Unless of course they were going to destroy the Han

I dont remember Jiang Wei conspiring but i forget a lot of things. It seems that he is smart as well as brave, going against his own empire Btw, I hear everyone hate Liu Chan. Is there anyone that likes him? Apparently, after Zhuge died, Jiang Wei was left to deal with him and Liu Chan must have drove him insane. After Liu Bei threw him on the ground when Zhao Yun saved him, he must of become stupid

ben_galahad wrote:

Wei Yan can't take the fact that despite serving Shu for so long he got a rank smaller than Fei Wei...a official that served Shu for like than 10 years.Got to look from his point of view.Do you think he felt that he deserved to be under someone so much junior than him?

Maybe because he lacks in brain skills?? (is it true that he speaks like in the game??)
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Jaegal_Maut wrote:

Maybe because he lacks in brain skills?? (is it true that he speaks like in the game??)

i think he's normal in real life. Maybe he just acts "barbaric"? I forget his abilities/personality in the book besides that he's a good fighter