hi...

how do we use ��͂� (yahari) in sentences? is it the same as ����ς� (yappari)

loads of thanks =)

brokenlines wrote:

hi... how do we use ��͂� (yahari) in sentences? is it the same as ����ς� (yappari) loads of thanks =)

They are the same word, so they are used the same way. But I have read that yappari is a little less formal than yahari.

brokenlines wrote:

hi... how do we use ��͂� (yahari) in sentences? is it the same as ����ς� (yappari) loads of thanks =)

�o����ł��傤���Ȃ��Ǝv�������A����Č�����������A��͂������ł����B
[dekiru deshou ka naa] to omotta kedo, yatte mitakattara, yahari muri deshita.

I was wondering wether I could do it, but when I tried, it was impossible after all.



�`�F�@�˂��A������ʂ����H nee, shiken wo tootta?
�a�F�@����A���߂������B iya, dame datta.
�`�F�@����ς�ˁB yappari ne.

A: Did you pass the exam? B: No, I failed. A: As I thought



�V�C�\��ɂ���č����J���~��Ȃ��͂��������̂ɁA����ς�J�ʂɂȂ��Ă��܂����B
tenki yohou ni yotte kyou ame ga furenai hazu datta no ni, yappari uryou ni natte shimatta.

Though according to the weatherreport, there wouldn't fall any rain today, there (still) came rainfall (in spite).



-> I hope these sentences are not weird to Japanese ears... anyway, I hope this helped a bit.
_________________

�@
�Y�����s������

Hey there

Your usage of the word ����ς� (��͂�) is absolutely correct in the below sentences, but some are a little odd, so I hope you don't mind me correcting you

supermidget wrote:

�o����ł��傤���Ȃ��Ǝv�������A����Č�����������A��͂������ł����B [dekiru deshou ka naa] to omotta kedo, yatte mitakattara, yahari muri deshita. I was wondering wether I could do it, but when I tried, it was impossible after all.

Usually, �ł��傤 and ���� are not used in the same sentence, as they kind of contradict each other. �o����ł��傤 is "(I) most likely can do it", but �o���邩�� is "(I) wonder if (I) can do it or not."
You also have "but" in the English sentence, but in the Japanese you've got ��, which kind of contradicts the latter half of the sentence.
Also, probably just a typo, but you've got ������������ instead of ������.

So, this is how I would write the sentence:

�o���邩�Ȃ��Ǝv�������ǁA����Ă݂���A��͂薳���������B

supermidget wrote:

�`�F�@�˂��A������ʂ����H nee, shiken wo tootta? �a�F�@����A���߂������B iya, dame datta. �`�F�@����ς�ˁB yappari ne. A: Did you pass the exam? B: No, I failed. A: As I thought

Just a little bit of odd Japanese in the first line.
Usually you say �����͍��i�����H or �����̓p�X�����H for "did you pass the exam?"

supermidget wrote:

�V�C�\��ɂ���č����J���~��Ȃ��͂��������̂ɁA����ς�J�ʂɂȂ��Ă��܂����B tenki yohou ni yotte kyou ame ga furenai hazu datta no ni, yappari uryou ni natte shimatta. Though according to the weatherreport, there wouldn't fall any rain today, there (still) came rainfall (in spite).

Although the usage of ����ς� here is correct as well, there is just a bit of oddness in the Japanese.
�V�C�\��ɂ���� would mean "because of the weather report" in this instance. "According to the weather report" would have to be written �V�C�\��ɂ���.
Also, the verb to rain is �~��, so the verb should be �~��Ȃ� in this case. Just an interesting note here, when it's in the affirmative, you say �J���~��, but when it turns negative you say �J���~��Ȃ�. Don't ask me why, it's just one of those weird Japanese grammar things.
Also, although �J�� does mean rainfall, it's usually only used when you are referring to the actual amount of rainfall. Something like, ���N�͉J�ʂ��������� ("There was a lot of rainfall this year.").
So, you can just say:

�V�C�\��ɂ��ƁA�����͉J�͍~��Ȃ��͂��������̂ɁA����ς�J�ɂȂ��Ă��܂����B

Good on you for getting the usage right, though. It's one of those words that is very hard for someone whose native language is not Japanese to understand

������
_________________

"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams

kokuou wrote:

Hey there Your usage of the word ����ς� (��͂�) is absolutely correct in the below sentences, but some are a little odd, so I hope you don't mind me correcting you

I was already hoping you'd comment on my sentenses hehe, cause I'm not so confident about constructing sentences myself.

As for the first sentence, my intention with ������������ was "when I wanted to try doing it".

@ni yoru to... me taking the wrong construction probably comes from the fact that in my dictionary there was one saying �Ɉ����� "according to" but I suppose they ment a different "according" like: "behave according to the law" or something like that?

After now seeing how many 'strange things' one can say, or how many mistakes one can make in such small sentences, I realize that the mails I send to my Japanese friends are probably soo stupid lol

Thank you for helping me cleaning up my Japanese
_________________

�@
�Y�����s������

i'd love to learn japanese too. but yeah, like they said, the fees can be very expensive. i'm taking up some of the words from japanese dramas i watch. (you know, sitting in front of the tv all day squinting you eyes trying to read the subtitles at the very edge of the tv screen hugging the vcd box and chewing something) i hope the language they use in dramas are dependable anyway. lol. and it's hard to find japanese cds here in malaysia too, unless you know some people. luckily, i know some people.

kokuou wrote:

vega12 wrote: Could someone enlighten me on the difference between the conditional conjunctions? I was going to explain, but I just did a quick search on the internet and found this page http://www.guidetojapanese.org/conditional.html which I think does a pretty good job at explaining it. HTH, ������

Thanks for the link; it really did a good job explaining it! Moreover, the site as a whole was well done and I ended up spending a good 6 hours reading through stuff on the weekend (^_~)

actually if any of you are primary sixes, you can appeal in to get into the third language centre which offers japanese as one of the languages. it's free and it is also one of your subjects. so you dun have to worry that this is an EXTRA subject.

JC students can register at the 3rd language centre that we do hv in singapore too i guess. yupps. so if you r really interested in japanese, you can actually do that. register for a course.

as for me, i took jap when im in sec 1 and i really loved it and so i continued till now..*sec 3 now btw* unfortunately many quitted as they cannot stand the stress. but still JAPANESE rocks!

neko meow
hi what do you want to know about japanese?
I just gave my 3rd level exam....let me know if i can help.
you can also ask koukou in the forum.he has helped me a lot.his suggestions are excellent.
japanese is difficult but if you study everyday its not so tough.

have fun.

thanks hptm, kokuou, loris and supermidget for helping me in my prev questions.

anyway with christmas coming near, i am just wondering how to say "merry christmas" in japanese? simply in katakana? �����[�E�N���X�}�X? cos i am thinking of sending a xmas card to a japanese friend.

pls correct me! =)

���肪�Ƃ��I

brokenlines wrote:

thanks hptm, kokuou, loris and supermidget for helping me in my prev questions. anyway with christmas coming near, i am just wondering how to say "merry christmas" in japanese? simply in katakana? �����[�E�N���X�}�X? cos i am thinking of sending a xmas card to a japanese friend. pls correct me! =) ���肪�Ƃ��I

Hello!

Yes, it's just �����[�N���X�}�X (you don't need the dot for the middle).
To the Japanese, it's not as big a holiday as it is in North America or Europe, so there's no Japanese phrase for it.

HTH,

������
_________________

"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams

�s���Ă܂�
�撣���Ă�������
what function "��"�@is in those sentence and as a minuscule.

hptm wrote:

�s���Ă܂� �撣���Ă������� what function "��"�@is in those sentence and as a minuscule.

The small 'tsu' or �� is used in Japanese to lengthen the consonant of the next CV cluster (which just means, basically, the next sound; eg. the 'k' in 'ka').

In Japanese, consonant length is contrastive, meaning that a word can change in meaning simply by the length of a consonant.

Ex.:

���� [����] - polite command of "come"

�؂��� [������] - polite command of "cut"

To pronounce this, simply begin to say the 't' sound, but hold your tongue at the front of the roof of the mouth for a second before releasing it.

HTH,

������
_________________

"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams

hi

i realised there are many ways of expressing the word "mother"

such as:

��i�͂́j
��e�i�͂͂���j
���ꂳ��i����������j

how do we use it actually? for okaasan, we use it even to call for our mums?

thanks =)

brokenlines wrote:

hi i realised there are many ways of expressing the word "mother" such as: ��i�͂́j ��e�i�͂͂���j ���ꂳ��i����������j how do we use it actually? for okaasan, we use it even to call for our mums? thanks =)

I don't know much about when you would use the word ��e... it seems rather official/technical, like talking about your mother as in "biological mother", very objective... at least you wouldn't call your own mum ��e, and also not mums of other people.

As for ��i�͂́j, it is a neutral (not polite) term referring to your own mother. You use this word when talking about your own mother to people outside of your "ingroup" (not family, household). But many people just refer to their own parents with the honoring ���ꂳ�� and ��������. Addressing your own parents would be by saying ���ꂳ�� and ��������. Never �� or ��.

Since ���ꂳ�� is honoring, you use it directly to your own mother and when referring to other people's mothers.

mother - father equivalents
��@�[�@�� �i�����j
��e�@�[�@���e�@�i��������j
���ꂳ��@�[�@��������@�i���Ƃ�����j
_________________

�@
�Y�����s������

Hello.. I was doing some practice for �\�͎���, the topic was �u�Ȃ��ŁA�Ȃ��āA�Ȃ��Ă��A�Ȃ��Ắv. Anyway this one came up:

Quote:

���܂�@�e�Ɂ@�S�z���@�i�@�@�@�j�@�����܂����B 1)�����Ȃ��Ă� 2)������ 3)�����Ă� 4)�����Ȃ���

I got this one wrong... and I don't really understand why it should be (3) according to the site. Problem points:

�e�ɐS�z��������: Does it mean "Being worried about by ones parents"? or "worry about ones parents"
I know for the first it would then probably be �S�z����������, but still...

���܂�: I only ever saw this with a negative verb, so I automatically chose between (1) and (4). I checked the dict. and discovered ���܂� can also mean "too much"...


my current conclusion is, the sentence should mean (using (3)):
"If you worry about you parents too much it doesn't work"
"You shouldn't worry too much about your parents"

Is this right? In what ways can ���܂� be used in the same way as �E�E�E������?

Like:
���܂���񂾂� ~ I drank too much???
�J�����܂�~�����̂ő吅���������B ~ Because it rained to much, there was a flood.??

Are these sentences possible?�@��낵�����肢���܂�
_________________

�@
�Y�����s������

supermidget wrote:

I don't know much about when you would use the word ��e... it seems rather official/technical, like talking about your mother as in "biological mother", very objective... at least you wouldn't call your own mum ��e, and also not mums of other people.

Acutally, ��e�i�͂͂���j or ��i�͂́j is the term that you are supposed to refer to your own mother as when talking to other people.
Lately, though, many younger people refer to their mother as ���ꂳ��i����������j, even though technically it is incorrect. I suppose it's just a part of language change, although prescriptive grammarians would beg to differ.
Actually, I just recently had a conversation with my friend and she said that she is actually kind of appalled at how many young people refer to their mother as ���ꂳ�� to other people, especially those above them such as bosses, teachers, and figures of authority.

supermidget wrote:

As for ��i�͂́j, it is a neutral (not polite) term referring to your own mother. You use this word when talking about your own mother to people outside of your "ingroup" (not family, household). But many people just refer to their own parents with the honoring ���ꂳ�� and ��������. Addressing your own parents would be by saying ���ꂳ�� and ��������. Never �� or ��.

Yes, of course.

supermidget wrote:

Since ���ꂳ�� is honoring, you use it directly to your own mother and when referring to other people's mothers. mother - father equivalents ��@�[�@�� �i�����j ��e�@�[�@���e�@�i��������j ���ꂳ��@�[�@��������@�i���Ƃ�����j

I would actually use ����l�i���������܁j, unless it was the mother of a very close friend.

HTH,

������
_________________

"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams

supermidget wrote:

Hello.. I was doing some practice for �\�͎���, the topic was �u�Ȃ��ŁA�Ȃ��āA�Ȃ��Ă��A�Ȃ��Ắv. Anyway this one came up: Quote: ���܂�@�e�Ɂ@�S�z���@�i�@�@�@�j�@�����܂����B 1)�����Ȃ��Ă� 2)������ 3)�����Ă� 4)�����Ȃ��� I got this one wrong... and I don't really understand why it should be (3) according to the site. Problem points: �e�ɐS�z��������: Does it mean "Being worried about by ones parents"? or "worry about ones parents" I know for the first it would then probably be �S�z����������, but still...

This is a tough question that acutally requires some level of intuitive knowledge.

Let's start with the verb.

������ [kakeru] - To put up; to hang (sth.); to put

You know that �S�z�i����ς��j means "worry," and you know that �e�Ɂi����Ɂj means "on/to/at (my) parents."

So, to ������ some �S�z on someone means "to cause someone to worry."

What the sentence above:

���܂�@�e�Ɂ@�S�z���@�i�@�@�@�j�@�����܂����B (Amari oya ni shipai wo ( ) ikemasen yo.)

is trying to get you to say is, "You shouldn't make your parents worry too much, you know."

Whenever you have VERB + �����܂��� and the intended meaning is "you shouldn't VERB" or "you musn't VERB," the conjugated form must be the [-�� form + ��]. ALWAYS, NO EXCEPTIONS.

(A little sidenote here: the form [-����], as in:
�����H���������߁I(Sore wo tabecha dame!) "Don't eat that!"
is a contracted form of �H�ׂ� and ��. ����, in this case, means the same as �����܂���.)

supermidget wrote:

���܂�: I only ever saw this with a negative verb, so I automatically chose between (1) and (4). I checked the dict. and discovered ���܂� can also mean "too much"...

Yeah, it can be used in affirmative sentences too, but it is usually then found as the form ���܂�ɂ�. However, that is not to say you CAN'T use ���܂� just like that in affirmative sentences.

���܂�H�׉߂���ƁA�����͒ɂ��Ȃ��B(Amari tabesugiru to, onaka ha itakunaru yo.)
"If you eat so much, you'll get a stomachache."

�O�����h�L���j�I���́A���܂�ɂ��傫���āA���R�Ƃ��Ă��܂����B(Grand Canyon ha, amari nimo ookikute, azen to shite shimatta.)
"I was stunned at the vastness of the Grand Canyon."

supermidget wrote:

my current conclusion is, the sentence should mean (using (3)): "If you worry about you parents too much it doesn't work" "You shouldn't worry too much about your parents"

Don't get sucked in!
Just like I said above, the sentence means:
"You shouldn't make your parents worry too much, you know."

supermidget wrote:

In what ways can ���܂� be used in the same way as �E�E�E������? Like: ���܂���񂾂� ~ I drank too much??? �J�����܂�~�����̂ő吅���������B ~ Because it rained to much, there was a flood.?? Are these sentences possible?�@��낵�����肢���܂�

Although the literal meaning of ���܂� (which comes from the verb �]��i���܂�j meaning, "to be left over; to be in excess) is "in excess," don't confuse it with meaning the same as �߂���i������j.

The colloquial way of saying, "I drank waaaaay too much!" would be:
���܂�ɂ����݂�������I(Amari nimo nomi sugita yo!)
Grammatically, it's alright, but it sounds odd.

As for the "flood" sentence, I would still stick in -�ɂ� after the ���܂�.
Oh, and the normal way of saying "flood" is �^���i���������j. Just so you know

HTH,

������
_________________

"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams

Thank you for your extensive reply Kokuou! ^^

Is there some way I can translate �]���ɂ� more litterally? Since the eventual translation seems to depend heavily on the context... is it something like "even to the / this extend of excess"?

For grammar in general, is there some site that has collected Japanese grammar and expressions in an systematic way? Like where I could have tried looking up "�S�z��������"? I'm trying to collect these kind of expressions of noun + verb:

�h�ӂ�\���@�u���������Ђ傤����v to show respect
�ْ��������@�u���񂿂傤���ق����v to relief stress
�������󂯂�@�u�������������v to take an exam

as such. Since these pairs are not often in dictionaries, I take them from what I hear/read... look it up and note them as a couple...
_________________

Hello!

I have two other questions...

1) I'm reading a news article about a murder on a man. Although I'm actually already sure of the meaning, does this mean the man was in his underwear:
�����p�̒j��

(in: �J�o���̒��ɂ͐g���P�V�T�Z���`���炢�ŁA�R�O�ΑO��̉����p�̒j���̈�̂������Ă���)

Sometimes I get confused about the way two words are joined by �� and it doesn't litterally mean "of" (like the "man of the underwear" doesn't work here).

2) One time I asked about how to read numbers with decimals before... but I realize I don't know anything about math/calculation in Japanese. How does one pronounce:

... plus ... is ...
... minus ... is ...
... times ... is ...
... devided by ... is ...
... to the power of ... is ...
the root of ... is ...

and negative numbers:
minus ...

and stuff what do you call it? like:
2
3 = two third

Thank you!
_________________