Joined: 04 Oct 2005 Posts: 211 Location: Indonesia Country:
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject:
supermidget wrote:
For example:
�s���Ȃ���@�Ȃ�Ȃ� �@ikanakereba naranai ~ (expression) "If I don't go, it doesn't become" => "I have to go"
�s���Ȃ���@�@�@�Ȃ�Ȃ��@ ikanakya naranai ~ Exactly the same, but it's a colloquial form. Compare �ł� de ha => ����i���j ja(a)
�s���Ȃ��� ikanakya ~ "If I don't go" => "I have to go/ I must go"
You can use this form with any verb, translating it as "(I, you, we) have to ..."
�H�ׂȂ���@�@�@�@�@�@ tabenakya ~ "I must eat"
���Ȃ���@�@�@�@�@�@ yaranakya ~ "I have to do it"
�������Ȃ���ˁI�@ nanika shinakya ne ~ "We should do something!"
thank you!! it only goes with verb.. so i can't combine -nakya with suki? one more, how do i say "you have to like it" in japanese?
Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 406 Location: ������ Country:
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:36 am Post subject:
@mavic: no problem
kurokage wrote:
thank you!! w00t! it only goes with verb.. so i can't combine -nakya with suki? one more, how do i say "you have to like it" in japanese?
You're welcome. Indeed it's not possible to connect it to a noun, since it is a certain form of a verb. Nouns can't really change form, so don't allow manipulations. Using the �Ȃ��� -nakya form on for example �D�� suki, you would use the copula verb �� "da":
�������@�@�@�@suki da ~ "(I) like it"
�D������Ȃ��@suki janai ~ "(I) don't like it"
I don't think you could ever use this sentence though. But anyway since sentences like "you have to..." always have a verb (in English), there should also be a verb in Japanese, thus you probably won't have so much trouble making this form. I guess
As for another way to say "You should/must like it" in Japanese, I'm not so good at producing natural sentences, but maybe it'd be something like this:
�D���ɂȂ邵���Ȃ��ł��傤�B�@suki ni naru shikanai deshou
litt: ~ "The only way would be that you will come to like it"
~ "You'll have to like!"
Anyway that's all I know... hope it helps. _________________
Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 406 Location: ������ Country:
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:36 am Post subject:
Hi kurokage, sorry I overlooked that one sentence you asked about earlier. I'll give it a try:
���̎��R�����߂����I�@sono jiyuu wo torimodosou! ~ (litt:) "Let's take back that freedom"
The sentence itself sounds a bit strange (in either language) though - is "that" freedom supposed to be "our" freedom? Like someone says in a speech to a bunch of rebellions?
���B�ɁA�O�̎��R�����߂����I�@watashitachi ni, mae no jiyuu wo torimodosou! ~ "Let's regain the freedom of before back to us".
I don't know , the sentences are (supposed to be) grammatically okay though. _________________
Joined: 04 Oct 2005 Posts: 211 Location: Indonesia Country:
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:46 pm Post subject:
supermidget wrote:
Hi kurokage, sorry I overlooked that one sentence you asked about earlier. I'll give it a try:
���̎��R�����߂����I�@sono jiyuu wo torimodosou! ~ (litt:) "Let's take back that freedom"
The sentence itself sounds a bit strange (in either language) though - is "that" freedom supposed to be "our" freedom? Like someone says in a speech to a bunch of rebellions?
���B�ɁA�O�̎��R�����߂����I�@watashitachi ni, mae no jiyuu wo torimodosou! ~ "Let's regain the freedom of before back to us".
I don't know , the sentences are (supposed to be) grammatically okay though.
supermidget, thank you so much!! for this explanation and the previous one. you really did help
yes, i think i should say our freedom, that's what i really meant it is okay if i change it into "ano jiyuu o torimodosou", right?
once again, thank you so much!!
Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 406 Location: ������ Country:
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:31 am Post subject:
kurokage wrote:
supermidget, thank you so much!! for this explanation and the previous one. you really did help
yes, i think i should say our freedom, that's what i really meant it is okay if i change it into "ano jiyuu o torimodosou", right?
once again, thank you so much!!
You are very welcome! About using ���� ano ���� sono etcetera... I can't really give you a definite answer to this - other people might disagree to what I think, but from my point of view though, it is somewhat uncomfortable using either of these words here. You know they can have two kinds of meanings:
���́A���� sono, ano:
1. That (overthere) -> "fingerpointing" so to say
2. That -> referring to a matter that has been mentioned already. Like "That guy I told you about"
In the case of ���R jiyuu, the first meaning isn't really applicable, since this is not a pointable thing. Unless ���R jiyuu had been mentioned, or it is by context clear which particular freedom is being talked about, using ���� sono / ���� ano ~ "that" doesn't make so much sense. It's up to you to deside whether to use it or not.
If I may advice, remember that - maybe a good guideline for anyone - if you for some reason think a sentence sounds better in one way, this may not be true for Japanese people. It might be better not to get attached to ones "bias" until one knows why it is really better (rather than depending on a feeling). We're all still students, aren't we
In case you did explicitly want to say "our freedom", ���B�̎��R watashitachi no jiyuu is ofcourse a fine translation.
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 506 Location: Canada Country:
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:54 pm Post subject:
supermidget wrote:
In the case of ���R jiyuu, the first meaning isn't really applicable, since this is not a pointable thing. Unless ���R jiyuu had been mentioned, or it is by context clear which particular freedom is being talked about, using ���� sono / ���� ano ~ "that" doesn't make so much sense. It's up to you to deside whether to use it or not.
Actually, both ���� and ���� are okay here and sound completely natural.
Using ���� has the connotation that the speaker assumes that the listener knows which ���R s/he is talking about.
����, on the other hand, can mean the same thing, but can also be just some ���R that is out there but can be specified later.
There are other very minute differences between the two, but I won't (can't) specify all of them here; they kind of have to be learnt while being immersed in the language.
HTH,
������ _________________
"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams
Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 406 Location: ������ Country:
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject:
kokuou wrote:
Actually, both ���� and ���� are okay here and sound completely natural.
Using ���� has the connotation that the speaker assumes that the listener knows which ���R s/he is talking about.
����, on the other hand, can mean the same thing, but can also be just some ���R that is out there but can be specified later.
There are other very minute differences between the two, but I won't (can't) specify all of them here; they kind of have to be learnt while being immersed in the language.
HTH,
������
I see! So would you say that in Japanese it sounds more natural to use ���� and ���� in some case than in English? I'm not a native English speaker, so maybe it actually does sound okay in English as well... For me "take back that freedom" sounded a bit strange, but maybe it doesn't to native english speakers. Plz teach me? _________________
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 506 Location: Canada Country:
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject:
supermidget wrote:
I see! So would you say that in Japanese it sounds more natural to use ���� and ���� in some case than in English? I'm not a native English speaker, so maybe it actually does sound okay in English as well... For me "take back that freedom" sounded a bit strange, but maybe it doesn't to native english speakers. Plz teach me?
Sure!
Yes, that freedom sounds fine in English as well.
Of course, it all depends on context, but in most cases, it will be okay.
HTH,
������ _________________
"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams
Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 406 Location: ������ Country:
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:12 am Post subject:
kokuou wrote:
Sure!
Yes, that freedom sounds fine in English as well.
Of course, it all depends on context, but in most cases, it will be okay.
HTH,
������
Aha! Good to hear. I didn't know that You know (probably not but anyway) Dutch (language of Netherlands) has many similarities with English, so one's sense of the English language is partially shared with the sense you have about the Dutch one. Just in some rare cases (besides big basic grammar rules) it doesn't work, apperently. I think in Dutch we would never say "that freedom". Though we say "that house" "that dog" like in English, I think if it's about abstract kinda things like "freedom", or "right" or "spirit/motivation", we wouldn't use these 'that', cause we imagine something pointable.
hmm, but we would say "that spirit of yours". Well, I'm getting myself more confused -_-
It's those little things that still keep you learning English whole of your life - or Dutch even _________________
Joined: 04 Oct 2005 Posts: 211 Location: Indonesia Country:
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject:
supermidget and kokuou, thank you guys so much!! you always help me undestanding japanese
actually, supermidget, i have a relative in Netherlands so i know that Dutch is so similiar to english. i can't speak Dutch, though. my dad can understand the language but he can't speak so much. however i heard about this that sometimes what sounds ok in english sometimes doesn't seem to be natural to Dutch.
Japanese is very complicated.. i actually have SO many things to ask, too many that sometimes i forget what i should check on taking courses don't really help since i'm better at self-learning. so having you guys helping me do really help. thank you so much!
Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 406 Location: ������ Country:
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:01 pm Post subject:
kurokage wrote:
supermidget and kokuou, thank you guys so much!! you always help me undestanding japanese
actually, supermidget, i have a relative in Netherlands so i know that Dutch is so similiar to english. i can't speak Dutch, though. my dad can understand the language but he can't speak so much. however i heard about this that sometimes what sounds ok in english sometimes doesn't seem to be natural to Dutch.
Japanese is very complicated.. i actually have SO many things to ask, too many that sometimes i forget what i should check on taking courses don't really help since i'm better at self-learning. so having you guys helping me do really help. thank you so much!
As you know I really like helping people out, it also makes sure I check on things that I don't know for sure before I answer and stuff...
Cool your father knows dutch Mah I don't know any Indonesian unfortunately >_<"
Oh by the way, you might want to make notes when you think of something you want to ask. I guess, if you forget about them sometimes.
Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 76 Location: Netherlands Country:
Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:41 pm Post subject: Japanese language institutes
I have a few questions about following a study in Japan. As I have tried to contact instances like JASSO ( Japan Student Services Organisation ) and contacting institutes, but none have replied yet (which allready takes more then 2 weeks now). That's why I wanted to try it here. There must be atleast a few who allready did this what I wanted to do. Also, this thread can be used for others who have questions regarding a study in Japan in general.
I am aiming towards an language study this October or April 2007 (but I doubt that I will be able to get everything done in the last 2 months of application time). What I wanted to know is: What are the best ways to contact an institute? What about payments? I saw that one school (which had everything nicely explained except this) asked to pay tuition fee before actually studying there. That was quit a lot. As it's not possible for me to earn 900,000 yen in just 2 months. Also, are there different payment methods or is it possible to contact an instance which could help you with the financial situation. It's just that I'm not used to pay everything at once. I would like some advice on just the finances which is the hardest part to get info on. Maybe there is someone who can tell me what he/she did or there might be people who can suggest a method or just find out some info. I might have some more questions, but I ran out of time. So anyone that could help me, thanks in advance. _________________
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Register
Log in
it only goes with verb.. so i can't combine -nakya with suki? one more, how do i say "you have to like it" in japanese? 
it is okay if i change it into "ano jiyuu o torimodosou", right?
taking courses don't really help since i'm better at self-learning. so having you guys helping me do really help. thank you so much! 
