Okay, here is one sentence that I'm trying to look up, perhaps you guys can shred some light?

�ǂ��������Ȃ���ł����I�H

�ǂ��� I always thought doko means where, but dictionary says this means somewhere.

�����Ȃ��� This one, i have no clue how to break it. Not sure if there are short forms of ����Ȃ��@

Another one�F
�h����ȁh�@���͘��Ƃ͌Ăׂ��I�I

This one i can't make out at all.

Thanks!!

This is late but thanks to Kokuou, Supermidget & kurokage for the help in my conjugation question!

fayewolf wrote:

Okay, here is one sentence that I'm trying to look up, perhaps you guys can shred some light? �ǂ��������Ȃ���ł����I�H �ǂ��� I always thought doko means where, but dictionary says this means somewhere. �����Ȃ��� This one, i have no clue how to break it. Not sure if there are short forms of ����Ȃ��@ Another one�F �h����ȁh�@���͘��Ƃ͌Ăׂ��I�I This one i can't make out at all. Thanks!!

i can only give you a little help.. but anyway..

Doko means Where. but Dokoka means Somewhere. it's just like Dare which means Who, but when it's added by Ka (=Dareka) the meaning becomes Someone.

�ǂ��������Ȃ���ł����I�H
as for this sentence, i'm not so sure but if i may guess, i think it means "You're not going somewhere?" or something like that.

About �����Ȃ��� (ikenain), i read once in my japanese book that n is actually a short form of no. so ikenain is also the same as ikenai no.. which makes the sentence "dokoka ikenai no desu ka?"

forgive me if i'm wrong supermidget or kokuou might be (actually i'm sure) able to correct me or give you more convincing information

To Ribi, you're welcome!

fayewolf wrote:

Okay, here is one sentence that I'm trying to look up, perhaps you guys can shred some light? �ǂ��������Ȃ���ł����I�H �ǂ��� I always thought doko means where, but dictionary says this means somewhere. �����Ȃ��� This one, i have no clue how to break it. Not sure if there are short forms of ����Ȃ��@ Another one�F �h����ȁh�@���͘��Ƃ͌Ăׂ��I�I This one i can't make out at all. Thanks!!

Kurokage is completely right about the �� being a short form of ��.
Phonetically, they begin with the same sound [n], so it's not that much of a stretch.
(Just think of how we combine "want" and "to" to get "wanna.")

�ǂ��� = "somewhere"
�ǂ��� = "where" plus topic marker

�����Ȃ� = this can mean "not be able to go," but it also has the connotation of "wrong" or "bad."

The sentence in question is actually a very colloquial phrase, and would probably stump those learners who have never heard it before.

A literal translation would be something like, "Which area is bad?", but what the speaker of this sentence is trying to say is, "What did I (he/she/they) do wrong?" or "Which part isn't right?"

As for the second sentence:

�h����ȁh�@���͘��Ƃ͌Ăׂ��I�I

����� = This kind of...
�� [����] = thing
�� = subject marker
�� [�ǂ�] = donburi; a meal that consists of something on top of rice in a donburi bowl
�Ƃ� = complimentizer (similar to the word "that" in English in a sentence, "I said that I love you.") required with verbs such as ���� (say), �Ă� (call), etc.
�Ăׂ� = �ĂׂȂ� [��ׂȂ�] = can't call
�� = exclamatory marker (kind of like ��)


Literal translation:

"(I) can't call this kind of thing a donburi!"

My translation:
"You call that kind of thing a donburi?!"

Anyway, gotta sleep!!

HTH,

������
_________________

"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams

kokuou wrote:

�ǂ��� = "somewhere" �ǂ��� = "where" plus topic marker �����Ȃ� = this can mean "not be able to go," but it also has the connotation of "wrong" or "bad." The sentence in question is actually a very colloquial phrase, and would probably stump those learners who have never heard it before. As for the second sentence: �h����ȁh�@���͘��Ƃ͌Ăׂ��I�I ����� = This kind of... �� [����] = thing �� = subject marker �� [�ǂ�] = donburi; a meal that consists of something on top of rice in a donburi bowl �Ƃ� = complimentizer (similar to the word "that" in English in a sentence, "I said that I love you.") required with verbs such as ���� (say), �Ă� (call), etc. �Ăׂ� = �ĂׂȂ� [��ׂȂ�] = can't call �� = exclamatory marker (kind of like ��) Literal translation: "(I) can't call this kind of thing a donburi!" My translation: "You call that kind of thing a donburi?!" Anyway, gotta sleep!! HTH, ������

oooh yea, right.. it's Doko Ga.. i understand now. i misread it i didn't know that ikenai also means "wrong" or "bad"

thanks a lot, kokuou! it's a lesson for me too

�����ƁAI thought �����Ȃ� means "wrong or bad" and �����Ȃ� (ikanai) means "unable to go"?

ribi wrote:

�����ƁAI thought �����Ȃ� means "wrong or bad" and �����Ȃ� (ikanai) means "unable to go"?

Yes, �s���Ȃ� means "unable to go". It can also mean "wrong/bad" in a way. Depending on the way the listener interprets a message.

The clause is also input and used in sentences and phrases to convey a message such as, "I/we have to (do/go/etc. [verb])".
Little tricky because it can be used in a negative and positive sense.

Sorry if my explaination wasn't too clear. I hope you understood what I was trying to get at, though. If not, hopefully a better explaination will follow.
_________________

kokuou wrote:

���� is exactly the same as ��. In almost all situations, you can use them interchangebly. The only real difference is that ���� is a little less polite than ��. Ex: �ނ͈ꏏ�ɍs���ƌ����܂����B(Kare ha issho ni iku to iimashita.) "He said (that) he was going together (with us/him/her/etc)." �ނ͈ꏏ�ɍs�����Č����܂����B(Kare ha issho ni iku tte iimashita.) "He said (that) he was going together (with us/him/her/etc)." (...) HTH, ������

thanks Kokuou for explaining! ^_^ it makes it easier now I know exactly what it is, now I could try using it
_________________

�@
�Y�����s������

ribi wrote:

�����ƁAI thought �����Ȃ� means "wrong or bad" and �����Ȃ� (ikanai) means "unable to go"?

for me, I find it easier to stay a little more to the original word:

�����Ȃ��@= it can't go
�s���Ȃ��@= it won't go/ it doesn't go

Change a bit to suit your taste, like "it won't go (well)". Actually in Dutch we can say: "That doesn't go!" meaning "It doesn't work". Which is sort of similar to Japanese expressions like:

���A��Ȃ���΂����Ȃ� (ima kaerenakereba ikenai)

if we don't go home now, it can't go
if we don't go home now, it doesn't work -> we have to go home now.


To add:
(this will sound strange maybe)
You don't always need a negative potential form to describe inability. For example:

���̑��͊J���Ȃ� (kono mado ha akanai)
This window doesn't go open.

Actually we're here already, without a potential form. But you could translate:

You can not open this window.

To be honest I only recently discovered this phenomenon, I was sort of surprised that it also happens in English (and Dutch).
So that's why maybe �����Ȃ� and �s���Ȃ� sometimes are interchangable.
_________________

�@
�Y�����s������

lol what the hell is:

�uinsert name here�v����, it's like a -san -chan etc. Someone addressed me with that in an email :?

-_- edit: sorry for posting three times in a row
_________________

kokuou wrote:

�����Ȃ� = this can mean "not be able to go," but it also has the connotation of "wrong" or "bad." The sentence in question is actually a very colloquial phrase, and would probably stump those learners who have never heard it before. A literal translation would be something like, "Which area is bad?", but what the speaker of this sentence is trying to say is, "What did I (he/she/they) do wrong?" or "Which part isn't right?" As for the second sentence: �h����ȁh�@���͘��Ƃ͌Ăׂ��I�I ����� = This kind of... �� [����] = thing �� = subject marker �� [�ǂ�] = donburi; a meal that consists of something on top of rice in a donburi bowl �Ƃ� = complimentizer (similar to the word "that" in English in a sentence, "I said that I love you.") required with verbs such as ���� (say), �Ă� (call), etc. �Ăׂ� = �ĂׂȂ� [��ׂȂ�] = can't call �� = exclamatory marker (kind of like ��) Thank you so much!!! This is super helpful!!! And now it all make sense. This story is about this young guy who's mom's cooking sucks and they are running this restaurant, and he's helping. This dude didn't even taste that donburi he made (that dude's assistant said it was very good), and got up to leave, and he made that remark. I thought it was "where are you going now!" completely wrong intrepratation!!! Thank you so much!! Faye ������

supermidget wrote:

lol what the hell is: �uinsert name here�v����, it's like a -san -chan etc. Someone addressed me with that in an email :? -_- edit: sorry for posting three times in a row

Hehehe...

Yes, it's like '-chan', but way more personal in the sense that you would only ever use it to write a good friend, or something like that.

HTH,

������
_________________

"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams

i have a question.. it's just my guess so i want to make sure.. does "dou ka" means "please"? i searched for it in mt dictionary and it says it has the same meaning with dozo. but i found once in a translation that it does means "please"

secondly, how do we use "da to"? is it always in the end of a sentence?

thanks a lot before!

kurokage wrote:

i have a question.. it's just my guess so i want to make sure.. does "dou ka" means "please"? i searched for it in mt dictionary and it says it has the same meaning with dozo. but i found once in a translation that it does means "please" secondly, how do we use "da to"? is it always in the end of a sentence? thanks a lot before!

�ǂ��� (douka) just by itself means, "how is it?"

It is more often seen, however, in sentences like the following:

�s�����ǂ����A�����āB(Iku ka dou ka, oshiete)
"Tell me whether or not you are going?"

����́A�ނ̖{���̋C�������ǂ����A���ł�������Ȃ��B(Sore ha, kare no hontou no kimochi ka dou ka, ima demo wakaranai.)
"I don't know to this day whether or not that is how he truly feels (if that is his true feeling)."


So, it's more or less the equivalent of the phrase "whether or not" in English.

As for using ���� (dato) at the end of sentences, this is a colloquial thing usually only used between friends you know really well.

Ending a sentence with ���� means that the main verb has been truncated.
In other words, usually ���� needs to be followed by a verb such as ������ (itta) or ������ (kiita), or some other verb that implies speech.

Ex:

���A�����ƁH�I(Ima nan da to?!) - missing ������ at the end
"What did you say just now?!"

�ޏ����s�������̂��ƁH(Kanojo mo ikitai no da to?) - missing �����Ă���, etc. at the end
"(She/he/you/they) said that she wants to go too?"

HTH,

������
_________________

"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams

�R�M�����@was written in bold... i cannot figure out what this mean...
the sentence following that is�@

�������̂ǂ����@�@just learned that �ǂ���means somewhere, what is My somewhere???

also-
��삳���I������Ȃ���@�@Does this mean ���@is an old man? Was it written in katakana for emphasis? Sorry for all these stupid questions..

hi ppl-
new to this thread. really interesting and helpful thread here

anyway, i am just curious- how do we say "bon voyage" in japanese? (in romanji please? cos my computer cannot view japanese character for god-knows-what reason)

thanks so much.

arigatou~

Sorry, ignorant person here....

What does "bon voyage" mean? Farewell or something?
_________________

brokenlines wrote:

hi ppl- new to this thread. really interesting and helpful thread here anyway, i am just curious- how do we say "bon voyage" in japanese? (in romanji please? cos my computer cannot view japanese character for god-knows-what reason) thanks so much. arigatou~

Welcome to the forums

(ahochaude: bon voyage is french for litterally: 'good journey', said when people are going on a trip)

you could say itterasshai (itte irasshai) �s���Ă�����Ⴂ�@�i�s���Ă�������Ⴂ�j. Which is said after somebody says "itte kimasu", meaning "I'm going (and coming back after it). Itterasshai litterally means "please go (and come back)", but it's sometimes translated with "bon voyage" or "have a good trip".

You may also say "sayounara" (���悤�Ȃ�), but it's meaning is more like "farewell" as opposed to "itterasshai" where you're still expecting to see eachother back in a relatively short time.
_________________

�@
�Y�����s������

fayewolf wrote:

�R�M�����@was written in bold... i cannot figure out what this mean...

As far as I know, �R�M���� (kogyaru ~ "ko girl") is a popular word for Highschool girl. Combined of the word ���Z�@�y���������z (koukou) meaning Highschool and the Japanese version of the word "Girl" (�M����).

Btw: pay special attention to small kana's. In �M���� the �� kana is small. The difference is this:

�M���� = gya ru
�M���� = gi ya ru

It's written in bold (?? you mean Katakana?) because it is a fashion word / combined from English and Japanese words.

fayewolf wrote:

the sentence following that is�@ �������̂ǂ����@�@just learned that �ǂ���means somewhere, what is My somewhere???

No idea, I feel like there's something missing. Like it's cut off. Let's wait for kokuou

fayewolf wrote:

also- ��삳���I������Ȃ���@�@Does this mean ���@is an old man? Was it written in katakana for emphasis? Sorry for all these stupid questions..

��삳�����I������Ȃ���

Might be confusing, since �e���y�I���W�z means "old man". But here it is �I�� + ����Ȃ�. The �� is hiragana, so it's part of the next word. ����Ȃ� means "is not", and �I�� means "parent". One could say that Katakana was used for emphasis. So:

Mr/Mss Asano is not your parent, you know!
_________________

�@
�Y�����s������

supermidget wrote:

Welcome to the forums (ahochaude: bon voyage is french for litterally: 'good journey', said when people are going on a trip) you could say itterasshai (itte irasshai) �s���Ă�����Ⴂ�@�i�s���Ă�������Ⴂ�j. Which is said after somebody says "itte kimasu", meaning "I'm going (and coming back after it). Itterasshai litterally means "please go (and come back)", but it's sometimes translated with "bon voyage" or "have a good trip". You may also say "sayounara" (���悤�Ȃ�), but it's meaning is more like "farewell" as opposed to "itterasshai" where you're still expecting to see eachother back in a relatively short time.

Thanks dude.
I hear that term all the time, however I never really knew the real meaning to it.
Thanks for clearing that up, supermidget.

supermidget wrote:

you could say itterasshai (itte irasshai) �s���Ă�����Ⴂ�@�i�s���Ă�������Ⴂ�j. Which is said after somebody says "itte kimasu", meaning "I'm going (and coming back after it). Itterasshai litterally means "please go (and come back)", but it's sometimes translated with "bon voyage" or "have a good trip".

Seeing as how I now know the literal meaning to the phrase, I would agree with supermidget in that this (IMO) would be the best literal way to translate such.
_________________