I have about 45 sets of VCD drama and a couple of DVDs...

However I know a fren who visits this forum every now and then who has A LOT (I think 100++ sets??) She buys them in bulk like 5 sets at a time!! Ne megumi??
_________________

Maranello wrote:

If they release english subbed dramas, I'm sure some fans will prefer to buy originals instead of bootlegged stuffs. But then the Japanese original DVDs are really too expensive for some people. Working adults may be able to afford them, but eg. students who are fans of Jdrama can't afford out of their pocket money for sure. If they are so highly priced, then obviously they can only capture a minority of the market share. And people who buy them must be really fans of the drama, since they are mainly for collection purpose. If one just wants to watch the drama, I'm sure they can easily find it somewhere off the net.

If this premiss used to support your side of an argument was used in Harvard School of Law, you would be immediately expelled from the school. In any argument, you never use a lack of an ability as justification for doing the wrong thing. Crack coccaine addicts use this form of an argument to support their actions. I'm sorry to make that comparison, but that's how I look at it.

Simply put, if you can't afford to support your craving for something, you quit the craving! It's too bad that people with low or no income cannot afford legally licensed dramas. But using this as justification for stealing licensed goods doesn't make it acceptable. You should instead give up on Japanese dramas and tend to something else that fits within your budget. Then, after you graduate, get a full-time job, find a place to live, fill your fridge with food, and have enought to pay the utilities, THEN you can possibly spend your extra money on the extras, like Japanese dramas.

Sorry... I have absolutely no sympathy for people who can afford the licensed stuff. When I went to college, I was making only $5.25 an hour as a part-time programmer. I had to commute by car about 40 miles every day from home to school, then school to my workplace in Hawaii Kai. I also played guitar at some of the fancy restaurants around town to earn additional money for school. I couldn't ride the bus because my programming gig was during the graveyard shift, so a lot of my money was spent on gas and insurance. With the money I earned in one month, I saved up enough money so that I could take my mom out to a nice restaurant, pay my tuition/books, and spend the rest of the money on one or two things I wanted, such as a mouse for my computer ($110 back in 1986) or a $1500 2MB RAM card for my computer. I was a Japanese anime fanatic, but I satisfied my craving by joining an anime club in Honolulu, and through that found friends where I can drop by their homes and watch VHS videos with them, reading scripts on paper created by other club members.

However, at no time during my schooling days did I ever bootleg anything. I didn't bootleg software, music, videos, or anything of the sort. Based on my monthly budget, I knew where my limits were. And, my hobbies were worked into how much I earned.

I'm sure that students nead to get away from their studies so they can relax and enjoy the things they really like. In my case, I saw that there was a lot of money at the end of the road. If I can complete my degree then get a full-time job, then I can start buying my own stuff. But again, stealing licensed materials on the basis that you can't otherwise afford it is by no means a valid argument.

--- groink

groink wrote:

If this premiss used to support your side of an argument was used in Harvard School of Law, you would be immediately expelled from the school. In any argument, you never use a lack of an ability as justification for doing the wrong thing. Crack coccaine addicts use this form of an argument to support their actions. I'm sorry to make that comparison, but that's how I look at it. Simply put, if you can't afford to support your craving for something, you quit the craving! It's too bad that people with low or no income cannot afford legally licensed dramas. But using this as justification for stealing licensed goods doesn't make it acceptable. You should instead give up on Japanese dramas and tend to something else that fits within your budget. Then, after you graduate, get a full-time job, find a place to live, fill your fridge with food, and have enought to pay the utilities, THEN you can possibly spend your extra money on the extras, like Japanese dramas. Sorry... I have absolutely no sympathy for people who can afford the licensed stuff. When I went to college, I was making only $5.25 an hour as a part-time programmer. I had to commute by car about 40 miles every day from home to school, then school to my workplace in Hawaii Kai. I also played guitar at some of the fancy restaurants around town to earn additional money for school. I couldn't ride the bus because my programming gig was during the graveyard shift, so a lot of my money was spent on gas and insurance. With the money I earned in one month, I saved up enough money so that I could take my mom out to a nice restaurant, pay my tuition/books, and spend the rest of the money on one or two things I wanted, such as a mouse for my computer ($110 back in 1986) or a $1500 2MB RAM card for my computer. I was a Japanese anime fanatic, but I satisfied my craving by joining an anime club in Honolulu, and through that found friends where I can drop by their homes and watch VHS videos with them, reading scripts on paper created by other club members. However, at no time during my schooling days did I ever bootleg anything. I didn't bootleg software, music, videos, or anything of the sort. Based on my monthly budget, I knew where my limits were. And, my hobbies were worked into how much I earned. I'm sure that students nead to get away from their studies so they can relax and enjoy the things they really like. In my case, I saw that there was a lot of money at the end of the road. If I can complete my degree then get a full-time job, then I can start buying my own stuff. But again, stealing licensed materials on the basis that you can't otherwise afford it is by no means a valid argument. --- groink

I never said that it's right to steal just because I can't afford. I'm not sure if bootlegged items are illegal or not, but they are sold on sites like Yesasia and major VCD stores. Does buying them make me a thief? I myself do not collect VCDs because I don't really like their quality. I would prefer to get the DVDs instead of course, but within my own budget too. I will give priority to those which I really like. I find it rather inappropriate to compare between buying bootlegged items and stealing though. The dramas are not released on VCDs at all, and all VCDs with subs are bootlegged. From the way you speak you sound as if buying the VCDs is a form of supporting piracy? If everyone stops watching dramas just because they can't afford to buy the DVDs, then there won't be so many people ard in this forum. And you mentioned you don't bootleg anything during your sch days. So you don't even download MP3s?

Maranello wrote:

I never said that it's right to steal just because I can't afford. I'm not sure if bootlegged items are illegal or not, but they are sold on sites like Yesasia and major VCD stores. Does buying them make me a thief?

If you say the YesAsia items are not licensed, then yes buying them is illegal. Having them sold at a store doesn't justify buying stolen goods. We talked about this on another thread where even if the item has a hologram decal stuck on the product, it could still be boolegged copies made to look like they're legal. Also, it is a fact that FUJI-TV, TBS, TV Asahi, and many of the other studios have never released their products with English or Chinese subtitles. As proof to this, read the product carefully and see if there is a mention of the licensing by the original production company. On my originals of Under the Same Roof and Imouto Yo, they both have them. But on a Chinese-subbed copy of UTSR, it has the hologram sticker but no mention of FUJI-TV anywhere on the product.

Maranello wrote:

I myself do not collect VCDs because I don't really like their quality. I would prefer to get the DVDs instead of course, but within my own budget too. I will give priority to those which I really like. I find it rather inappropriate to compare between buying bootlegged items and stealing though.

Bootlegging and stealing are exactly one in the same. Bootlegging is a slang term meaning "stealing". It originates from the term "booty" or "thief's winnings" used by pirates when talking about the merchandise they stole from ships.

Maranello wrote:

The dramas are not released on VCDs at all, and all VCDs with subs are bootlegged.

Fansubs, when hardsubed and distributed to the general public is considered illegal because the English subtitles are translations of the original Japanese spoken language. In the legal world, any translations of an original work is also copyrighted under the copyright protection of the original work.

Maranello wrote:

From the way you speak you sound as if buying the VCDs is a form of supporting piracy? If everyone stops watching dramas just because they can't afford to buy the DVDs, then there won't be so many people ard in this forum.

You cannot justify something being legal because thousands of people do the same thing. That's not a valid argument to justify these actions.

Maranello wrote:

And you mentioned you don't bootleg anything during your sch days. So you don't even download MP3s?

You're damn right I've never downloaded a MP3!!!!! I'm in full support of both the RIAA and the MPAA. As a musician, I have the full right to record my works and sell them on the open market without fear of people stealing my works. And if people start stealing my works, I have the right to go after these people. I'm in total support for people like Lars Ulrich of Metallica who are against trading of licensed works. Today, I buy all of my music, either on CD or via the Apple iTunes Music Store.

--- groink

One other thing... I do in fact distribute copyrighted works in the form of hardcoded subbed items, such my Under the Same Roof captures. However, I am fully aware that what I'm doing is in fact a breech of the copyright protection of these works. And, I'm willing to face whatever consequences that become of it if FUJI-TV, NGN, or anyone else with legal ownership of the product if it comes to that. Hopefully just a slap on the wrist and an agreement to stop it is all that comes out of it.

The thing of the matter is that I'm willing to admit my actions. A lot of people out there, however, is in total denial of their actions, and they try to justify it by having thousands of other people do the same thing. That's basically what Napster and all the rest were about. They make it so that it's virtually impossible, even by legal means, to stop the illegal trading. It's basically Robin Hood of the 21st century -- steal from the rich and give it to to the poor, only now there thousands of Robin Hoods and millions of the poor. People can argue about the high cost of CDs and DVDs, encryption vs fair use, etc. However, it's still illegal.

--- groink

for jdorama it is still below 100..
but more than 80

Well, nothing much I could argue if you insist buying bootlegged VCDs or DVDs is equivalent to stealing. However, I'm not saying it's perfectly legal just because thousands of people do the same thing. I'm not even sure if bootlegged items are legal, since they are sold in major shops and online stores. I'm saying there's no need to stop watching dramas just because you can't afford the original DVDs as there's always some other ways to get it. (eg. Buying bootlegged or downloading fansubs.) I do download fansubs. But if I seriously like the drama, I will buy the original DVD just for collection sake, even if they come without subs. And I doubt anyone else can claim not to have downloaded any MP3s before. I guess you are maybe just 1 out of every 100.

BTW this is not a flaming thread. I appreciate it that you share your views on bootlegged items, but I believe this could be done in a more tactful manner though.

Bootlegged, original or whatever...as long as I can afford it I don't bloody care!!! Since nobody is suing so...who cares hehehehe..

Akakage wrote:

Bootlegged, original or whatever...as long as I can afford it I don't bloody care!!! Since nobody is suing so...who cares hehehehe..

Right?!?!?!?! Just about ALL of us have contributed to bootlegging to some extent. These dramas/ent. aren't as readily available to many without going through bootlegging at least sometimes....in my opinion. I'll be damned if I spend $250+ on a region 2 drama DVD set I have not even seen first, LOL. And it would have to be really really good for me to do that even if I saw it previously (I'm not a stickler for subtitles). Until I am financially well off enough to do so, for me it's downloading, trading, VCD boxset hunting, and hopefully soon again...renting. I don't buy caps or fansubs from ebay, but I do get VCD boxsets from auctions occasionally. But still, I'm in the illegal game too for making and trading for copies, LOL. Guess I'm just a sucker for grabbing all the content I can.

I swear, I'm just a penniless victim with not much self control (just kidding....sorta)

KouSeiya315 wrote:

Right?!?!?!?! Just about ALL of us have contributed to bootlegging to some extent. These dramas/ent. aren't as readily available to many without going through bootlegging at least sometimes....in my opinion. I'll be damned if I spend $250+ on a region 2 drama DVD set I have not even seen first, LOL. And it would have to be really really good for me to do that even if I saw it previously (I'm not a stickler for subtitles). Until I am financially well off enough to do so, for me it's downloading, trading, VCD boxset hunting, and hopefully soon again...renting. I don't buy caps or fansubs from ebay, but I do get VCD boxsets from auctions occasionally. But still, I'm in the illegal game too for making and trading for copies, LOL. Guess I'm just a sucker for grabbing all the content I can. I swear, I'm just a penniless victim with not much self control (just kidding....sorta)

I get what you mean..I think we're on the same boat more or less..I guess

I guess almost every1 here is...

This subject can be quite controversial, so I should probably keep my mouth shut ... but

Copyright infringement is not theft. The industry would like everyone to believe that it is, and so they popularize the term "piracy" to demonize file-sharing.

But in both technical legal terms, and I believe also in practice, copyright infringement is quite different than theft, although one shouldn't kid oneself, it is still illegal.

The RIAA, for example, wants you to think file-sharing is theft, because they want to collect money for every download. This is wrong. You just can't assume that every download is a lost sale. And a few studies have shown that downloading music does not necessarily impact sales, because it generates new sales to offset those folks who use it as a substitute for purchasing the product.

And that, I believe, should be the real moral test here. If you download as a substitute for purchasing products, then you are hurting the industry, and the artists. On the other hand, if you download to "try before you buy", or if you upload so that others can can find out about new and interesting artists, then you may actually be helping to contribute to the market. But no matter how well-intentioned you are, sharing media is almost certainly illegal (depending on where you are, since a judge in Canada recently ruled that downloading music is not illegal, but in the US anyway, it almost certainly is illegal ).

As for all those Asian VCDs floating around, from what I've read, they are almost all illegal bootlegs. They are quite popular and common, but if the original publisher has not licensed them, they are illegal copies, even if you happen to buy them in a legitimate store, or trade for them online.

As for me, I know that sharing media files is illegal, but I still do it and I don't really feel too bad about it, because I do not use it as a substitute for purchasing.

I wish the industry was a little more lenient. Most of the money you currently spend on a CD or DVD goes to marketing costs (not the artists!). But file-sharers are doing grass-roots marketing, which costs the industry nothing. If the industry could harness the awesome power that these groups of dedicated file-sharing fans have, they could actually reduce their marketing costs, which would reduce the costs of media, which would genereate more sales ...

At least that's how it would all work IF I WAS IN CHARGE!

I have no idea how these bootlegged copies of VCDs make their way to the stores in Singapore if they are illegal like you said.. Which is why I'm still having doubts about whether it's legal or illegal. So far I haven't seen any shops in Singapore prosecuted just cause they are selling those VCDs.

Maranello wrote:

I have no idea how these bootlegged copies of VCDs make their way to the stores in Singapore if they are illegal like you said.. Which is why I'm still having doubts about whether it's legal or illegal. So far I haven't seen any shops in Singapore prosecuted just cause they are selling those VCDs.

I don't really know the situation in Singapore, I've never been there, yet! But from what I've read, a lot of VCDs are illegal copies. Just using a search engine, and I find articles like this:

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/legal/0,39020651,39115266,00.htm

Quote:

"Singapore is running the risk of gaining recognition as the headquarters for pirates of Japanese anime and serial dramas," the association said in statement last week.

Wow.. Thanks for the article!

Maranello wrote:

Wow.. Thanks for the article!

Sure.

Just to be clear, I think it's possible there are some legit drama VCDs out there as it is a popular format in Asia, but I've heard bootlegs are often made to look quite authentic.

If you really are concerned about whether you are buying a bootleg or not, probably the only foolproof way to know is to contact the original copyright holder and ask them if they have licensed that product to be sold in that format in your area. I doubt many (any?) consumers do this though

But if someone does this, it would be interesting to hear the results

Man, this thread got derailed around page one, I think...

bmwracer wrote:

Man, this thread got derailed around page one, I think...

Back on track then.

I collected about 82 Japanese Drama VCD sets in about a year. Did I forget to mention that I am a shopaholic?

Just a few words in regards to Bootleg VCDs, not that I support that or anything, but without Bootleg, many of us will probably never be able to see so many JDoramas here in the U.S. or any other non-asian countries. So domo Mr. Bootleg Industry Average Person, even though your choice of career is legally wrong, you have unintentionally done some good.

FierceStriker wrote:

Back on track then. I collected about 82 Japanese Drama VCD sets in about a year. Did I forget to mention that I am a shopaholic? Just a few words in regards to Bootleg VCDs, not that I support that or anything, but without Bootleg, many of us will probably never be able to see so many JDoramas here in the U.S. or any other non-asian countries. So domo Mr. Bootleg Industry Average Person, even though your choice of career is legally wrong, you have unintentionally done some good.

Nicely said

FierceStriker wrote:

Back on track then. I collected about 82 Japanese Drama VCD sets in about a year. Did I forget to mention that I am a shopaholic? Just a few words in regards to Bootleg VCDs, not that I support that or anything, but without Bootleg, many of us will probably never be able to see so many JDoramas here in the U.S. or any other non-asian countries. So domo Mr. Bootleg Industry Average Person, even though your choice of career is legally wrong, you have unintentionally done some good.

Bravo FierceStriker...Nicely said and done..