shin2 wrote:

I agree that Hollywood is the last place you'd want to depend on to tell the truth. Again, on my earlier post regarding the making of this movie, I questioned why one would go to see an American movie to learn about geisha (I think I said it would be just as ridiculous to see a French movie about the American Civil War). Hollywood is not alone in distorting the truth; I think most countries' entertainment industries do this. For example, on another thread I wrote about how the dorama series Sakura flat-out lied about how Japanese-Americans viewed WWII; the series dishonestly tried to promote the view that Japanese-Americans were torn in their loyalty between Japan and the U.S. What a load of crap! For any entertainment medium, it's all about making money. That's what they're in the business for. They have to turn profits in order to continue to operate. That's why Hollywood went out and got three Chinese actresses who have much higher profiles and bankability than any Japanese actress. Is it accurate? No. Is it a good business decision? Only time will tell. Finally, remember Tom Cruise's The Last Samurai? Talk about distorting reality and fudging the truth--that movie could be a primer about what happens when Hollywood tries to do Japanese. Great visuals, outstanding action sequences, but lip-service veracity.

well i think you and i are both arguing the same point...i think that ppl who might have read the book and have been served with artistic integrity and realism in the portrayal understandably have higher expectations than the unintiatied, unexposed masses. yes, but hollywood always panders to the lowest common denominator in it's quest for money. That's not to say that cinematic translations of the written word ALWAYS betray the original work. It is quite rare though when it doesn't.

Tony Takatani...a short story written by Haruki Murakami was recently made into a film and has generally been met with critical acclaim regarding it's celluloid capture of the original story....but then again it's a Japanese film...not a Hollywood production.

I heard since the three female characters are Chinese they're changing the title of the movie from Memoirs of a Geisha to "Memoirs of Guandong."

Tu_triky wrote:

I heard since the three female characters are Chinese they're changing the title of the movie from Memoirs of a Geisha to "Memoirs of Guandong."

'Geisha' loses Japanese nuances on big screen


LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - While the 1997 best-selling novel "Memoirs of a Geisha" was written by an American, Arthur Golden, he absorbed enough of Japanese culture in his years of travel and study to convey the mysterious world of the geisha as one of subtlety, discretion, ritual and tradition.

The movie version, directed by "Chicago's" Rob Marshall and written by Robin Swicord, has, frankly, Americanized the story. The filmmakers have made the characters crasser, they ignore nuances within geisha tradition and give characters attitudes and dialogue highly unlikely for Depression-era Japan. The heroine, who in time becomes a legendary geisha, is modeled in the film more after a willful, modern American teen than a young Japanese woman.

"Memoirs" has generated plenty of heat on its way to the screen. The novel reportedly has been translated into 32 languages and the film production criticized for the casting of three leading Chinese actors -- Ziyi Zhang, Michelle Yeoh and Gong Li -- as Japanese. So opening boxoffice grosses will be strong. As an exotic romance set in the lost world of prewar Japan, the film should have sufficient legs to become a hit this holiday season.

The controversy extends beyond the cast, which is a case of a major (Japanese-owned) studio covering an expensive bet with international stars. Here is a film about Japan made by Americans, shot mostly in the U.S. and, of course, in English. Once you accept these compromises in the name of international filmmaking, none is a real deterrent to enjoying this lush period film.


Designer John Myhre's meticulous re-creation of a 1930s hanamachi or geisha district with its rickety wooden houses, ancients streets and alleys, formal teahouses and sea of nighttime lanterns on a Southern California ranch is an accomplished and credible set. The lavish kimonos, a sumo match, geisha dances, John Williams' lyrical East-meets-West musical score and atmospheric cinematography by Dion Beebe emphasizing deep, dark colors all are hallmarks of classic Hollywood filmmaking. These are surface delights that might distract from Marshall's tendency to focus on melodrama over intimacy and emotional excess over restraint.


"Memoirs" tells the story of a young child sold to an okiya or geisha household in Kyoto in 1929. Chiyo (Suzuka Ohgo) initially resists her initiation into this new life despite her terror of the doyennes of the domicile, Mother (Kaori Momoi, whose whiny, sharp voice often grates) and Auntie (Tsai Chin). Adding to her misery, the house's breadwinner, the treacherous geisha Hatsumomo (Gong Li), takes an instant dislike to the young girl.


When Chiyo attempts to run away, Mother refuses to put any more money into her geisha training. This relegates her to the status of maid for life. At her lowest point, as she sobs near the city river, a wealthy man she knows only as the Chairman (Ken Watanabe) treats her to a sweet and has kind words for her. This encounter transforms her life. She also falls in love with the Chairman.


Later, the hanamachi's legendary geisha, Mameha (Yeoh), takes the youngster under her wing, seeing in the beautiful girl with haunting eyes (now played by Zhang) a possible means to rid herself of her hateful rival Hatsumomo. Mameha makes, in essence, a bet with Mother that all of Chiyo's debts to the okiya will be paid off by her 20th birthday.


So the race is on. The young girl, whose name is changed to Sayuri when she becomes an apprentice geisha, undergoes intense training. In the world of a geisha, a glimpse of flesh under a kimono or a rumor spread by a malicious rival can make or damage a reputation forever. Mameha takes her "younger sister" to teahouses and introduces her to all her clients just as Hatsumomo and her protege, Pumpkin (Youki Kudoh), do the same. At every turn, Hatsumomo tries to undermine her rivals. All things lead to the auctioning of Sayuri's mizuage (virginity) to her wealthy gentlemen patrons.


The man who displays the most interest, despite his dislike of geishas in general, is the industrialist Nobu (Koji Yakusho). To Sayuri's dismay, Nobu's best friend and partner is the Chairman. No man will pursue a geisha favored by his friend. The man who emerges as Nobu's rival is Dr. Crab (Randall Duk Kim), nicknamed for his appearance, but not before the Baron (Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa), Mameha's patron, makes improper advances that nearly ruin Sayuri's career.


Naturally, Swicord's screenplay must eliminate characters and take shortcuts to stuff the major activity from the novel into the 144-minute movie. But these shortcuts run roughshod over subtlety. The chess game among these women is reduced to a cat fight. Hatsumomo is a much more formidable opponent than the movie gives her credit: She is clever, sharp and tenacious. The move version forces Gong to pay a spoiled drunk mad with jealousy.


Similarly, Sayuri is brought up to speed much too quickly. She performs a dance on her first night as an apprentice, something that would never happen. She makes sharp ripostes with her rival, dialogue more in tune with a '30s American film comedy than '30s Japanese culture. A dance performance at one point, choreographed by John DeLuca, feels like a modern Western interpretation imposed on Japanese tradition, more "Chicago" than Kyoto as it were.


The acting in all the major roles is astute. Zhang manages to seize the contradictory qualities of her character -- shyness and uncertainty coupled the defiance and iron will -- and mold them into a memorable female character. Yeoh brings just the right dignity and cautious calculation to the role of Sayuri's mentor. Gong puts the necessary sexuality into hateful Hatsumomo. Watanabe and Yakusho make strong impressions as wealthy men reduced to pandering to Yank occupiers after World War II.


The final third of the movie, rushing through the war and occupation, feels anti-climatic, even flat. Admittedly, the novel had a similar problem as this story is strongest when it enters the lost and secret world of women who never can pursue their own happiness.


Columbia Pictures, DreamWorks Pictures and Spyglass Entertainment present an Amblin Entertainment/Red Wagon Entertainment production.


CAST:


Sayuri: Ziyi Zhang


Chairman: Ken Watanabe


Mameha: Michelle Yeoh


Nobu: Koji Yakusho


Hatsumomo: Gong Li


Pumpkin: Youki Kudoh


Mother: Kaori Momoi


Auntie: Tsai Chin


Baron: Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa


Dr. Crab: Randall Duk Kim


Director: Rob Marshall; Screenwriter: Robin Swicord; Based on the novel by: Arthur Golden; Producers: Lucy Fisher, Douglas Wick, Steven Spielberg; Executive producers: Roger Birnbaum, Gary Barber, Patricia Whitcher, Bobby Cohen; Director of photography: Dion Beebe; Production designer: John Myhre; Music: John Williams; Co-producer: John DeLuca; Costumes: Colleen Atwood; Editor: Pietro Scalia.


Reuters/Hollywood Reporter

from the TokyoNYC website:
--------------------------------------------------------------
More 'Geisha' Trouble


The renewed anger over the non-Japanese cast of the new movie "Memoirs of a Geisha" should really be a surprise to no one. Why?

Okay, so we keep hearing actors/producers associated with the film giving us examples over time of how Italians have played Americans, Americans have played British, African Americans have played Africans, etc. This is given as proof that actors don't need to be culturally/genetically accurate to play a given role. In most cases, I would actually agree -- but not in this case.

The scars and unresolved anger between China and Japan are apparent to anyone who picks up a newspaper. So making a film that deals with the heart of Japanese culture, but casting it with all Chinese actors is not only culturally insensitive and naive, it's just plain foolish to think that it wouldn't matter. Now if the producers are taking the strategy that it doesn't matter because the target audience is mostly American (at least there's "some" logic in that rationale), then this movie better be really freaking good, because despite the success of "Crouching Tiger", in general there doesn't seem to be a huge hunger from American audiences for Japanese or Chinese period pieces. And now with all the outrage coming from Japan, China, movie reviewers, and now even feminists, this movie will have to be really special to overcome all the bad will directed at it. I've seen the trailer and it was a yawner. Regardless, the producers seem to have gotten this project all wrong

Ziyi Zhang is actoring in it . I might go see it, i am not sure

Tu_triky wrote:

from the TokyoNYC website: -------------------------------------------------------------- More 'Geisha' Trouble .... The scars and unresolved anger between China and Japan are apparent to anyone who picks up a newspaper. So making a film that deals with the heart of Japanese culture, but casting it with all Chinese actors is not only culturally insensitive and naive, it's just plain foolish to think that it wouldn't matter. Now if the producers are taking the strategy that it doesn't matter because the target audience is mostly American (at least there's "some" logic in that rationale), then this movie better be really freaking good, because despite the success of "Crouching Tiger", in general there doesn't seem to be a huge hunger from American audiences for Japanese or Chinese period pieces.... Regardless, the producers seem to have gotten this project all wrong

I agree with you almost 100%. The preview commercial for this when Zhang ZiYi shouts, "I want a life that is my own!" somehow reaked of Americanized bullcrap. It didn't seem to be the subtle, moving, ACTUAL TRUE STORY MEMOIR that I had read some years before. It seems gaudy, loud and 'Asianized'.

Oh, and there has been a kind of interest in Asian film lately with hits such as The Last Samurai, HERO and House of Flying Daggers. Though, they haven't made a huge dent like recent British romance comedies have in American mainstream.

yume wrote:

I agree with you almost 100%. The preview commercial for this when Zhang ZiYi shouts, "I want a life that is my own!" somehow reaked of Americanized bullcrap.

now that was funny....


in any case i just recently saw a documentary on the Discovery Channel I believe...it was entitled the Secret World of Geishas...it was a piece that actually followed the lives of REAL women in Kyoto..both geiko and the maiko apprentices...i thought it did a good job at capturing the alluring traditions of the geisha and the extreme discipline required to pursue this career. it was a healthy dose of authenticity which i'm sure will be absent from this upcoming Memoirs film.

the narrator noted that the hand-painted kimonos worn by the geisha cost anywhere from 10,000 to 50,000 dollars PER kimono....nuts.

Tu_triky wrote:

the narrator noted that the hand-painted kimonos worn by the geisha cost anywhere from 10,000 to 50,000 dollars PER kimono....nuts.

My other kimono is a bathrobe.

loris wrote:

My other kimono is a bathrobe.

terry cloth...painted with finger paints, i'm sure.

Tu_triky wrote:

now that was funny.... in any case i just recently saw a documentary on the Discovery Channel I believe...it was entitled the Secret World of Geishas...it was a piece that actually followed the lives of REAL women in Kyoto..both geiko and the maiko apprentices...i thought it did a good job at capturing the alluring traditions of the geisha and the extreme discipline required to pursue this career. it was a healthy dose of authenticity which i'm sure will be absent from this upcoming Memoirs film. the narrator noted that the hand-painted kimonos worn by the geisha cost anywhere from 10,000 to 50,000 dollars PER kimono....nuts.

i would like to see that documentary about maikos/geisha, seems interesting about their lives...damn that is expensive per kimono
i actually had the rare chance to see a Maiko in Kyoto, while walking the streets with my friend in the Gion District. Unfortuately, i was too far away and it was nighttime to get a picture of the rare view of a Maiko. The apprentice Geisha(Maiko), was on the side walk with a few other people that i couldn't not identify, but i was surprised to see one from across the street.

qilver wrote:

i would like to see that documentary about maikos/geisha, seems interesting about their lives...damn that is expensive per kimono i actually had the rare chance to see a Maiko in Kyoto, while walking the streets with my friend in the Gion District. Unfortuately, i was too far away and it was nighttime to get a picture of the rare view of a Maiko. The apprentice Geisha(Maiko), was on the side walk with a few other people that i couldn't not identify, but i was surprised to see one from across the street.

wow that would be a rare site...the documentary actually shows a kimono maker handpainting a kimono...the narrator said the usual kimono consists of 40 feet of handpainted silk....crazy.

Tu_triky wrote:

that was shown on PBS about 2 years ago.. i think i have it on tape somewhere.


edit: nevermind, the one i saw is "The Secret Life of Geishas"

krim wrote:

that was shown on PBS about 2 years ago.. i think i have it on tape somewhere.

yeah i think it was filmed a few years ago....but you know they repeat everything on cable every so often.

not the same one, sorry..
(see edit)

krim wrote:

not the same one, sorry.. (see edit)

secret life secret world....watevas

Gee, it's too bad the Japanese don't produce any quality movies.

If they made one about geisha, it could be exported to the US market...

Everytime we see one of those travelogue shows on cable ("Globe Trekker" et al) we cringe when they cover Japan. Then they usually interview some bar girls who speak English, imply that geisha are whores, then straight to the sushi bar that serves fugu!

It may be a while before the west "gets" Japan.
_________________

Tu_triky wrote:

wow that would be a rare site...the documentary actually shows a kimono maker handpainting a kimono...the narrator said the usual kimono consists of 40 feet of handpainted silk....crazy.

dang...no joke...40 ft!
that's crazy....all the intricate details that go into making a single kimono, it is an art, an art in itself....

Itazura ichiban wrote:

Gee, it's too bad the Japanese don't produce any quality movies.

they do... if most of the uncultured morons here get over their skill at eating authentic california rolls and chop suey with their chopsticks they might take notice....

it shouldn't take a movie written by a Jewish author about a culture not his own to have ppl notice the complexities and richness of another country's traditions.

some ppl here are saps...the same broke ass fools who prolly still think saddam hussein is down with al qaida.

It opens today doesn't it?

I'm not going to be seeing it (at least not now, I might consider renting the dvd on a rainy day). Zhang Ziyi's accent kills me, the fact that they're trying to pass that off as "British English spoken with a Japanese accent" is just too stupid for words.