welcome Garp_is_dead

i never used audio cassette before. some came with the first book i bought but i never used them.

i really enjoyed learning kana.
i started with katakana, took me forever to memorize the characters . hiragana was really easy to learn after that.
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Hi a-nesuto, thank you for your welcoming and answer .
In fact i started with hiragana because i tought it was more used than katanana, but i'll have to learn both anyway
I prefer even not to think about kanjis yet haha
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I also decided to learn katakana before hiragana and I found it heloful because:
1) The shapes are easier than hiragana.
2) Most of the words that are written in katakana are really english words anyway. Just by learning katakana you can alread read a lot of words in japanese =).

Same with me, after katakana, hiragana came easily.

my own personal experience is that there's nothing better than being thrust amongst lots of japanese speaking people and learning the spoken language. this is what i did when i first lived out there. audio lessons are never enough.
of course it's not always practical so watching as many films and dramas is also a good way as you pick up how actual sentences are structured and used.
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Yes I do think that there are no better ways than living abroad, and just an audio method is clearly not enough, but actually i don't have time (and money ) to go over there, but I should go when my studies are ended (so I have 2 years to perfect my knowledge of the language )
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ohh...audio tapes sound like a wonderful idea, and it would probably help tons with pronunciation... 0_o I should get my hands on some of those...

In my opinion, from speaking and writing, the one you should learn first is the one that will help you understand the language first. If you're a visual learner, learning to read/write it will give you a better grasp of the language, then do so. Or if you're a (oral? audio? what's the word I'm looking for?) learner, then speak/listen first. Personally, I think the best way is to learn them both together...so you get an audio and a visual to go with it! A win-win situation (more or less) Of course, each person is unique, so it's very hard to say...

What about learning both at the same time?
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Only now, after 2/3 years of independent study through textbooks am I starting to practice communication skills. Because I'm going to Japan in September, I want to have more a practical knowledge of the language than I currently have. After trying to practice speech for the first time, I immediately noticed that it is very difficult to pick sentences apart when spoken by a native speaker, if you're just accustomed to reading. Very often, I'd have to ask them to repeat what they said slowly, and ask what some words meant. It's even more embarrassing when the words I don't know, are ones I'd recognize immediately had they been written down in kanji .

I am VERY much more adept at the written language than I am in the spoken language, and it might take a while to balance back out. However, I'm happy I've taken the time to learn all kana, hundreds of kanji, at least a thousand or so words, and lots of grammar, because they'll greatly help me out as I continue to improve my conversation skills. I guess if you want to be proficient in Japanese as soon as possible, it is important to exercise all skills from the start. However, I think that a strong foundation in the basics of grammar will benefit you greatly when you start to immerse yourself in the spoken language. If you don't learn fundamentals right away, the language becomes just a sequence of disjoint facts that you have to memorize, with little connection between them. If you master basics of grammar first, when you start to learn more of the language, you'll immediately have a much deeper understanding than otherwise. It also makes it easier to learn new things, because you can always resort back to fundamental rules to make sense of things.

However, the method I'm learning is by no means the ultimate approach. I think a lot of it depends on what kind of learner you are. I am a very logical person, with a strong foundation in math, physics, and computer science, so learning a language from fundamental principles worked very well for me. In my case, I think it was best that I learned kana and kanji recognition through LRNJ first, then grammar through this site http://www.guidetojapanese.org/index.html second. After that, I got textbooks, and progressed fairly rapidly through them, picking up what vocabulary I could. I'm now at a stage where I can read material from 2nd or 3rd year university courses, but can only make it through a 1st year conversation . Again though, I didn't really have access to any formal lessons, so I was kind of forced in this direction, and as such, probably have a very biased opinion about the matter.

but how can we learn it if theres no teacher who can teach us in actual.....
i start learning it without any teacher only self study.. so i start in reading and writing.... here in phil do no japanese lesson if u like to learn u have to buy books...... books teaches how to read and write not to speak.... this is my prob....
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If you have no teacher and no people to practice with you should try any audio method I think.
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ryanloveyukie wrote

Quote:

but how can we learn it if theres no teacher who can teach us in actual..... i start learning it without any teacher only self study.. so i start in reading and writing.... here in phil do no japanese lesson if u like to learn u have to buy books...... books teaches how to read and write not to speak.... this is my prob....

i dont know what books your studying from but all of my books show you how to pronounce words

for example it would say
nihon kara kimashita ( from Japan ) nee-hohn kah-rah kee-mahsh-tah
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Tiffany <3

I'm taking Japanese right now.

We first started with learning Hiragana (in Japanese 1).
I think its important you learn how to read and write first.
Learn how to read and write the Hiragana, Katanaka, and eventually Kanji.
You'll see these a lot when learning Japanese even in Japanese 1.

As you learn how to write, you'll learn the sentence structure and Japanese grammer. No way you can speak Japanese correctly unless you know this

If you were to want to learn how to speak first....you'll be learning simple introductions, and how to say names, objects, and places.

Definately have with you a Japanese/English dictionary. It'll boost your vocab knowledge and comes in handy.
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but is there a site that teaches right pronounsation of nihongo?
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I think the best way is to hear it first hand (visiting Japan, watching dramas in Japanese). That way, you can hear how native speakers say the words.

ryanloveyukie wrote:

but is there a site that teaches right pronounsation of nihongo?

have you been to this site i posted in another thread?

http://japanese.about.com/blbegin.htm

some good stuff there like the audio files.
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Tiffany <3

K.T.Tran wrote:

I'm taking Japanese right now. We first started with learning Hiragana (in Japanese 1). I think its important you learn how to read and write first. Learn how to read and write the Hiragana, Katanaka, and eventually Kanji. You'll see these a lot when learning Japanese even in Japanese 1. As you learn how to write, you'll learn the sentence structure and Japanese grammer. No way you can speak Japanese correctly unless you know this If you were to want to learn how to speak first....you'll be learning simple introductions, and how to say names, objects, and places. Definately have with you a Japanese/English dictionary. It'll boost your vocab knowledge and comes in handy.

i bought a japanese-eng dictionary, and it has helped with some of my vocab, and a few other books, but challenging yourself, and maintaining the commitment to learn on your own, that is the key, and it takes a lot of dedication, desire, and commitment to wanting to learn it and somewhat understand it.

a-nesuto wrote:

have you been to this site i posted in another thread? http://japanese.about.com/blbegin.htm some good stuff there like the audio files.

oh i see!!! thx
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Some of us don't have the luxury of time to study writing/reading, which requires you to be able to sit and concentrate on nothing else for (maybe) a few hours a day? I really wish I did, because I would love to be able to learn to read/write Japanese also. I'm learning by audio CD, and now I know how to pronounce some words I think it would be easier to read them (from the little hiragana I have picked up)

well when i first took an intrest to learning japanese i would just mimick what i heared in television shows i watched. however, after i started learning hiragana/katakana, i got a deeper understaning of the language and how the words i was already using were pronounced. i think to understand how the language works you need to be able to read the basics, hiragana/katakana. also after learning them i realized how broken romanji really is and think that using it hinders ones learning greatly.

the way i learned hiragana/katakana was to take a chart i found online and make it my desktop. i would often look at this since it was right infront of me, plus it was a quick reference when going to websites and reading random things(that yes i didnt understand, but was reading just to practice reading). to help my verbal skills i read these outloud.

at this point i am far from fluent, and probably read and write at the same level as a 5 year old kid in japan, but find myself on the same level as people i know that took 2 years of classes.

my opinion on this mirrors others who say learn the spoken language first because i think that even knowing how to read the written language serves no purpose if u don't know what the stuff ur reading means...so learn spoken first...or do both i think that could work too, learning to read then learning the transaltion of what u are reading...kills 2 birds with 1 stone neh? but of course 2 months ago when i was starting i didn't have that luxuray and started spoken but i think doing both could be more efficient for some or learning reading might be better for others...it just depends on how you learn