Why is it that I've been taught through Japanese learning tapes how to say numbers but whenever a Japanese person counts they seem to pronouce completely different words? Example 4 = yon, yet when I hear someone count to 10 they say something entirely different for 4.

Jimmi wrote:

Why is it that I've been taught through Japanese learning tapes how to say numbers but whenever a Japanese person counts they seem to pronouce completely different words? Example 4 = yon, yet when I hear someone count to 10 they say something entirely different for 4.

I guess when counting backwards or forwards, you say numbers differently??? That or maybe where you're from that plays a difference??
I'm not exactly sure, but for the number example you use, I tend to say yon ever since i hear it from the Initial D anime
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sometimes, they kinda cut the word short. or at least thats how it sounds.

like 1 = ichi = ICH or 6 = roku = rok

kinda like, losing the last letter.



but i dont think i'm completly correct tho.
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There are numbers that are pronounced differently, depending on how it is used, and who says it.

4 = yon or shi
40 = yon-ju, I've never heard of shi-ju

7 = nana or shichi

I'm sure there is an explanation.

dochira wrote:

There are numbers that are pronounced differently, depending on how it is used, and who says it. 4 = yon or shi 40 = yon-ju, I've never heard of shi-ju 7 = nana or shichi I'm sure there is an explanation.

Most Japanese prefer to use Yon when they can as Shi also means Death. Same implication with Shichi. Yon is also stronger sounding Shi is kind of a weak sound that can easily get lost. At least that is my understanding of the usages.

You will also notice most Japanese hotels don't have a 4th floor to tie in with the whole shi = death thing.
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Doramafan113 wrote:

Most Japanese prefer to use Yon when they can as Shi also means Death. Same implication with Shichi. Yon is also stronger sounding Shi is kind of a weak sound that can easily get lost. At least that is my understanding of the usages. You will also notice most Japanese hotels don't have a 4th floor to tie in with the whole shi = death thing.

Ah, just like 13 here in the US. Doesn't the "shi" come from the Chinese pronunciation?

Doramafan113 wrote:

Most Japanese prefer to use Yon when they can as Shi also means Death. Same implication with Shichi. You will also notice most Japanese hotels don't have a 4th floor to tie in with the whole shi = death thing.

WOW!!! i didn't know that. I learn a lot here at Jdorama
Thanks a lot
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From TheJapanesePage.com

ON READING: Is the 'Chinese' Reading and is thus usually spelled in katakana
KUN READING: Is the 'Japanese' Reading and is written in hiragana.

Meanings: one, 1
On Readings: ichi, itsu
Kun Readings: hito, hito(tsu)

Meanings: two, 2, second
On Readings: ni
Kun Readings: futa, futa(tsu)

Meanings: three, 3, third
On Readings: san
Kun Readings: mi, mit(tsu), mi(tsu)

Meanings: four, 4, fourth
On Readings: shi
Kun Readings: yon, yo, yot(tsu), yo(tsu)

Meanings: five, 5
On Readings: go
Kun Readings: itsu, itsu(tsu)

Meanings: six, 6, sixth
On Readings: roku
Kun Readings: mu, mui, mut(tsu), mu(tsu)

Meanings: seven, 7, seventh
On Readings: shichi
Kun Readings: nana, nana(tsu)

Meanings: 8, eight, eighth
On Readings: hachi
Kun Readings: ya, yat(tsu), you

Meanings: nine, 9, ninth
On Readings: kyuu, ku
Kun Readings: kokono, kokono�itsu�j

I read somewhere that numbers sometimes loose letters or are shorten for easier pronunciation, but I'm not sure if that's true or not.

K.T.Tran wrote:

I guess when counting backwards or forwards, you say numbers differently??? That or maybe where you're from that plays a difference?? I'm not exactly sure, but for the number example you use, I tend to say yon ever since i hear it from the Initial D anime

An interesting point here is that when Japanese and fluent speakers of it count forwards to ten, most will say:

�����@�Ɂ@����@���@���@�낭�@�����@�͂��@���イ�@���イ

but when they count backwards, the two numbers in question here change:

���イ�@���イ�@�͂��@�Ȃȁ@�낭�@���@���@����@�Ɂ@����

Don't ask me why, though. I couldn't tell ya.

������
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kokuou wrote:

An interesting point here is that when Japanese and fluent speakers of it count forwards to ten, most will say: �����@�Ɂ@����@���@���@�낭�@�����@�͂��@���イ�@���イ but when they count backwards, the two numbers in question here change: ���イ�@���イ�@�͂��@�Ȃȁ@�낭�@���@���@����@�Ɂ@���� Don't ask me why, though. I couldn't tell ya. ������

I've always done it that way too. I find it easier to say �� and ���� counting forward and ��� and �Ȃ� counting backwards. I dunno, that's my reason.

counting is may be difficult for foreigners to comprehend (i hope that don't sound to condiscending) because diffrent things may be counted differently, case in point:

if you're gonna be counting long things (such as pencils, chopsticks, etc.) it would be ipon, nihon, sampon... (1, 2, 3,...)

if you were to count thin, flat things (such as paper, seeweed, etc) it would be cound as: ichi-mai, ni-mai, sanmai...

if you're gonna be counting animails, it would be: ipiki, nipiki, sampiki...

these are just a few other examples.

- niko
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remember for animals 3 changes to sambiki instead of piki

neoshi wrote:

remember for animals 3 changes to sambiki instead of piki

Maybe it's just me, but I have a widescreen laptop and your messages, neoshi, are VERY hard to read because your avitar is so big. Would you mind sizing it down in consideration of people trying to read your messages?

TIA

������
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kokuou wrote:

Maybe it's just me, but I have a widescreen laptop and your messages, neoshi, are VERY hard to read because your avitar is so big. Would you mind sizing it down in consideration of people trying to read your messages? TIA ������

Okay, it so just resized itself now and it is small...
something funky's goin' on here!!

������
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-Bern Williams

kokuou wrote:

Okay, it so just resized itself now and it is small... something funky's goin' on here!! ������

I've been having the same problem when I browse from home.

lol.. hmm.. i will make it even smaller then lol.. no idea why it's expanded

neoshi wrote:

remember for animals 3 changes to sambiki instead of piki

thats just the english phonetics. when you pronounce it, it doesn't really matter if it's biki or piki. (or at least i don't think so).

thoughts, anyone?
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hmm i guess though my sensei nitpicked me on that stuff so i guess she hammered biki into my brain for both writing and pronunciation

neoshi wrote:

hmm i guess though my sensei nitpicked me on that stuff so i guess she hammered biki into my brain for both writing and pronunciation

well, if you are going to school for that, then i guess the proper keigo for that would prolly be biki. me, i just speak casual JP, and no keigo.
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niko2x wrote:

thats just the english phonetics. when you pronounce it, it doesn't really matter if it's biki or piki. (or at least i don't think so). thoughts, anyone?

I think it depends on the consonant that precedes it:
For example, hyaku (100).

200 = nihyaku
300 = sanbyaku or sambyaku
400 = yonhyaku
...
800 = happyaku