Joined: 08 Oct 2004 Posts: 2560 Location: San Leandro, CA Country:
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:39 am Post subject:
yume wrote:
hazukashii.
Yay, no college! Down with higher education!
*runs off to finish thesis*
What are you doing your thesis on? For my senior seminar, I did my thesis on the women who worked in Japanese silk and cotton factories during the Meiji era.
I really need to learn to read kanji faster than I am now...if I'm going to stick to history that is . _________________
I've not the slightest yet. Double majoring in Ethnic Studies and Asian Studies--I'm only glad that undergraduates are only required to do a "mini-thesis" or "senior project" of self-conducted research through qualitative research methods (I am thinking of interviews or data collection [which'd be quantitative I guess]). My major idea is to research the media's influence on the recent image between South Koreans, Japanese and Zainichi Koreans and the effect that it has on the real population of these three groups' self identity as ethnic groups [through television commercials/clips and/or magazines...they're easier to record than interviews, which take forever to transcribeee!].
I was mainly interested in this because the Japanese people have ultimately recognized themselves as being uniquely Japanese and not necessarily a part of the Pan-Asia boom until recently; yet...many do not note themselves particularly nationalistic or ethnically proud compared to their South Korean peers (I'm going to focus mainly on people in their late teens to early 30s, since they're the ones mainly targeted by recent pop media).
That's my general outline.......but I haven't talked it over with any advisors yet, and there's only one professor who has any idea on anything Korean in the Asian and Ethnic Studies department.
kitakaze wrote:
I really need to learn to read kanji faster than I am now...if I'm going to stick to history that is .
Kanji...it's really fun when you get it. And so not fun when you don't. I think my only advice is to read something with hard kanji everyday. I haven't read anything above high school level, and reading the news has become horrible in a matter of 4 months. I'd recommend this site for intermediate level (but I am not sure if it's high enough to help):
http://webjapanese.com/column/stock01/
Joined: 08 Oct 2004 Posts: 2560 Location: San Leandro, CA Country:
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:45 am Post subject:
Actually, that sounds really interesting yume. I'd be interested to read your thesis once you get it hammered out. Even though I study history...I did avoid the "great men" of Japanese history (even though I'm required to know it still), and I've focused on the outcastes: women (feminists) and the burakumin.
yume wrote:
Kanji...it's really fun when you get it. And so not fun when you don't. I think my only advice is to read something with hard kanji everyday. I haven't read anything above high school level, and reading the news has become horrible in a matter of 4 months. I'd recommend this site for intermediate level (but I am not sure if it's high enough to help):
http://webjapanese.com/column/stock01/
Thanks . My kanji level is very poor, but I'm working on it. I really want to teach English in Japan so that I'm exposed to Japanese daily and culturally, but I need to get a TESL certification to get taken seriously. _________________
Joined: 15 Apr 2005 Posts: 20 Location: Tokyo, Japan Country:
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:02 pm Post subject:
Wait a second.
haraimashoka?
Depending on context can mean "shall I pay", but it might also mean "shall we pay?". It really depends on the situation.
If you go out with a friend and you usually divide the bill, it will most likely be interpreted as "shall we pay? (and leave)".
If you want the other to pay you wouldn't say "haraimasu ka?", this is very direct and might be considered rude. So in most cases if you're on close terms "haraimasuka" would be interpreted as "let's pay an go."
If you ask your partner for a favour more natural would be:
"(Ne, ne.) Haratte kureru?" or more polite "Haratte moraeru?" or if you're on very close terms even "Haratte kurenai?"
(the "ne, ne" in brackets is for Girls, who want to add some cuteness to increase the chance of having the boy pay ;-)
Having said that, if you're using desu masu forms to conversate with your partner, you're probably not in a position to ask the opposite to pay for you (you don't know each other close enough), unless there's a distinct reason (lost your credit card...) Then you'd ask very humbly and polite like:
"Moshiwake arimasen ga, haratte itadakenai deshou ka?" and you'd explain why you wanted him/her to pay.
-masuka
is it? does it? do you? etc.
-shouka
shall I? Shall we?
If you ask for favours etc. "--te itadakemasuka" or "--te itadakeru deshouka" is more indirect and polite.
Note:
deshouka is often used in connection with verbs or adjectives to ask more politely.
Example:
Nanji desuka?
What's the time?
Nanji deshouka?
Could you tell me what time it is?
(In some cases it might actually mean "I wonder what time it is". Japanese translation depends very often on context).
Joined: 15 Apr 2005 Posts: 20 Location: Tokyo, Japan Country:
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:54 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Anata no eiga o mitara, kamisama wa itsudemo tasukaremasu
This means: "Watching your movie, God can always be saved".
You wanted to say:
Anata no (sutekina) egao dewa, kamisama ga itsumo
mimamotte kureru yo.
���Ȃ��́i�f�G�ȁj�Ί�ł́A�_�l������������Ă�����B
NOTE: You would never ever say this in Japanese. Because here are almost no Christians and the basic idea of kamisama is a different one. This is one of these Japanese sentences you'd better avoid, because only a gaijin would say that. For Japanese meantioning god and religion like this, the conversation usually gets a very serious and heavy touch, so just avoid it. Also in general try not to say stuff only people in movies would say.
You might get through with it in the US, but in most other countries including Japan, people think it's ridiculous.
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 506 Location: Canada Country:
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:43 am Post subject:
arglborps wrote:
NOTE: You would never ever say this in Japanese. Because here are almost no Christians and the basic idea of kamisama is a different one. This is one of these Japanese sentences you'd better avoid, because only a gaijin would say that. For Japanese meantioning god and religion like this, the conversation usually gets a very serious and heavy touch, so just avoid it. Also in general try not to say stuff only people in movies would say.
You might get through with it in the US, but in most other countries including Japan, people think it's ridiculous.
I disagree with this.
THere are PLENTY of songs which mention kamisama, lately and in the past. You are right, however, in the fact that there are very few christians in Japan and that the Japanese idea of kamisama differs from that of North America.
However, although you would never say something like that out loud (other than in a song), you wouldn't say it out loud in English for exactly the same reason: it's too sappy and would probably make the people around you want to yak, for lack of a better word
Even if kamisama is mentioned in Japan or a Japanese song, though, it doesn't conjure up the same idea of an almighty figure as it would with most North Americans (I, however, disagree about the existence of such a BAKAGETA idea... ) Basically, if you say kamisama in Japanese, it just means that you are safe or something to the effect of that. Same thing with TENSHI, although we say, "you're my angel" in English, you don't necessarily have to be a Christian to say it.
Just my 2 yen.
Kokuo _________________
"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams
Joined: 28 Apr 2005 Posts: 13 Location: Japan Country:
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:41 am Post subject:
�@�r�[�������ɂ�������B
�A���͂��O�ł��Ȃ��B
The particle "wa", as you know, is the Topic Marker. Thus, it essentially 'singles-out' something, giving it a very contrastive element. In the second sentence, "ore wa omae dewa nai (I am not you)", "ore wa" means the me, as opposed to anyone else. Thus, a better (albeit longer) translation could be "I don't know about anyone else, but I sure am not you."
With that, adding "wa" to other directive particles gives it strong contrastive emphasis. In the first sentence, "biiru ga karada ni wa iindayo (You know, beer is good for your body)", could have been an answer to "�r�[���͑̂ɂ������āH (What did you say? Beer is good for the body?!)".
The "dewa" in the second sentence roots from old Japanese, along with "de aru" and the like. For now, you can simply think of it not "dewa nai" but "ja nai" (as "ja" is "dewa" made shorter), and think of it as a standard negation language structure.
Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 1529 Location: United States Country:
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:47 am Post subject:
dai wrote:
�@�r�[�������ɂ�������B
�A���͂��O�ł��Ȃ��B
The particle "wa", as you know, is the Topic Marker. Thus, it essentially 'singles-out' something, giving it a very contrastive element. In the second sentence, "ore wa omae dewa nai (I am not you)", "ore wa" means the me, as opposed to anyone else. Thus, a better (albeit longer) translation could be "I don't know about anyone else, but I sure am not you."
With that, adding "wa" to other directive particles gives it strong contrastive emphasis. In the first sentence, "biiru ga karada ni wa iindayo (You know, beer is good for your body)", could have been an answer to "�r�[���͑̂ɂ������āH (What did you say? Beer is good for the body?!)".
The "dewa" in the second sentence roots from old Japanese, along with "de aru" and the like. For now, you can simply think of it not "dewa nai" but "ja nai" (as "ja" is "dewa" made shorter), and think of it as a standard negation language structure.
Joined: 28 Apr 2005 Posts: 13 Location: Japan Country:
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:49 am Post subject:
�Ⴄ�B
It does not "put emphasis on the topic of the sentence," per se, as the "wa" particle marks a topic, any topic, not necessarily the main topic of the sentence.
The keyword is "contrast". Like what I said about sentence 2, "ore wa" does not just mean, "me", it means "me, and not anyone else." Thus, when I say, "�p�[�e�B�ɂ��s���܂������ǁA�R���T�[�g�ɂ��s���܂���ł����B (I went to the party, but not to the concert.)" It is also stressing that it is to the party I went to, and not someplace else, furthermore, I did not go to the concert, but I may have gone someplace else (which in this case, is true, as I went to the party, remember?) It could have been a reply to the statement, "�f�`�b�j�s�̃R���T�[�g���ƂĂ�������������ł��I�s���܂������H (Gackt's concert was OMFG so f***ing great, d00d! You got to go?)".
For "de wa", "�o�X�ł��s�������_�����B (Going by bus is absolutely forbidden.)" In this sentence, the speaker tells the person he is talking to that using the bus to go to a certain place is no good, but the speaker also indicates that going by other means is all right.
Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 1529 Location: United States Country:
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:42 pm Post subject:
dai wrote:
�Ⴄ�B
It does not "put emphasis on the topic of the sentence," per se, as the "wa" particle marks a topic, any topic, not necessarily the main topic of the sentence.
The keyword is "contrast". Like what I said about sentence 2, "ore wa" does not just mean, "me", it means "me, and not anyone else." Thus, when I say, "�p�[�e�B�ɂ��s���܂������ǁA�R���T�[�g�ɂ��s���܂���ł����B (I went to the party, but not to the concert.)" It is also stressing that it is to the party I went to, and not someplace else, furthermore, I did not go to the concert, but I may have gone someplace else (which in this case, is true, as I went to the party, remember?) It could have been a reply to the statement, "�f�`�b�j�s�̃R���T�[�g���ƂĂ�������������ł��I�s���܂������H (Gackt's concert was OMFG so f***ing great, d00d! You got to go?)".
���������B
So using �ɂ� in those sentences makes it VERY specific what is being done and not anything else. Sweet, I'm not so confused anymore.
Joined: 28 Apr 2005 Posts: 13 Location: Japan Country:
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:07 am Post subject:
eightysix wrote:
���������B
So using �ɂ� in those sentences makes it VERY specific what is being done and not anything else. Sweet, I'm not so confused anymore.
Once again, ������, dai����I
No prob. ;D A good rule to remember is that "wa", used anytime and anywhere, makes something very specific, highlighting that specific thing's difference with anything else. E.g.:
The last line ("boku wa curry") is not saying that I am curry. It's a response to the third line, "boku wa sandwich sukinda". Roughly in English, "I really like sandwiches." "Me? I prefer curry."
"Boku wa" indicates the difference between the two speakers. Use of "ga," the subject marker, not only wouldn't make any sense---it would be incorrect here. If the line is taken out of context, and the Japanese native didn't know you were a foreigner, he would probably think that you are introducing yourself as "Mr. Curry," instead of meaning to say, "I don't know about anyone else; you may like sandwiches, but me, I prefer curry."
Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 6 Location: Istanbul Country:
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 8:46 pm Post subject:
Hi, I need some help about some topics in japanese grammar. I will be very appreciate if you spare time and help. Thank you in advance.
1)-te kara means after doing, okay but how can I say �gbefore doing�h for example �gbefore dying�h. Can I say �gshinde mae�h is it correct?
2)What does mean �gtabe nagara Is it �h by eating�h or �gwhile eating�h or both?
3)How can I say �gflying bird�h. Is �gtobi tori�h correct. If it is yes, so can we say that this rule is: Take a verb, get masu form, drop -masu attachment and use it whenever you want. For example machi hito (waiting man), hanashi musume (speaking girl), asobi kodomo (playing child). Are these examples correct?
4)What about �geaten food�h I suppose �gtabeta gohan�h or �gtaberemashita gohan�h. Am I right?
5)What is the translation of this phrase �gI will speak slowly in order to tell it better�h and �gI will speak slowly so that you can understand�h
6)How can I say �gas if you did�h. How can I use �gas if �g form with –i , -na adjectif and nouns for example �gas if it was cold�h, �gas if you were student�h �g as if it was quiet�h
7)How can I say �ginstead of�hand �gnothing but�h For example how can I say �gInstead of speaking she kept quiet�h and �gThere is nothing here but the cat�h (ıs there any other saying except �gkoko ni neko sae ga arimasen�h)
8)And finally the word �gfor�h. How can I say �gThis is for you�h My dictionnary says �gtaishite�h but I have never heard it
Sorry for this long message but if you answer this will be very valuable help to me
Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 506 Location: Canada Country:
Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 6:43 am Post subject:
Okay, I am just copying your message and replying that way.
Q1)-te kara means after doing, okay but how can I say �gbefore doing�h for example �gbefore dying�h. Can I say �gshinde mae�h is it correct?
A1 - -tekara is used because it is signifying the past tense. Because "before doing" by nature singifies that something will happen, you use the dictionary form. Eg.: "before dying" is "shinu mae ni."
Q2)What does mean �gtabe nagara Is it �h by eating�h or �gwhile eating�h or both?
A2 - Any verb followed by -nagara means "while doing something." There are exceptions, however, not because the nuance changes in Japanese, but because we wouldn't say it in English. Eg: "warui to shirinagara mo, kare ha okane wo totta" translates to "even though he knew it was wrong, he took the money."
Q3)How can I say �gflying bird�h. Is �gtobi tori�h correct. If it is yes, so can we say that this rule is: Take a verb, get masu form, drop -masu attachment and use it whenever you want. For example machi hito (waiting man), hanashi musume (speaking girl), asobi kodomo (playing child). Are these examples correct?
A3 - Japanese adjectives always come before the noun they modify. Even though these are verbs that you are using to modify the noun, they still precede them and you have that right. However, a verb that modifies a noun always comes in its dictionary form, present participle form, or past tense form. Eg: "flying bird" - "tondeiru tori," "waiting man" - "matteiru hito," "playing child" - "asondeiru kodomo."
Q4)What about �geaten food�h I suppose �gtabeta gohan�h or �gtaberemashita gohan�h. Am I right?
A4 - No. In this case, "tabeta gohan" would mean "the food that (I) ate." Eg: "boku ga kinou tabeta gohan ha mazukatta" ' "The food that I ate yesterday tasted bad." Because it is the food that is eaten, you need the passive voice form of the verb, in this case "taberareta." ("taberareta gohan")
Q5)What is the translation of this phrase �gI will speak slowly in order to tell it better�h and �gI will speak slowly so that you can understand�h
A5 - Both the phrases "in order to" and "so that" are "you ni" in Japanese, if that's what you're getting at.
The translations of the above, in order, are:
"Umaku ieru you ni, yukkuri hanasu."
"Anata ga rikai dekiru you ni, yukkuri hanasu."
Q6)How can I say �gas if you did�h. How can I use �gas if �g form with –i , -na adjectif and nouns for example �gas if it was cold�h, �gas if you were student�h �g as if it was quiet�h
A6 - "As if" is also "you ni" in Japanese. This is the subjunctive case in English, so really, from a prescriptive grammarian's point of view, your sentences should be, "as if it were cold" and "as if it were quiet," but I'll let it slip this once That aside, it really depends on context whether you use the past or present tense of these. Here are both, just in case:
As if it were cold - "samui you ni" "samukatta you ni"
As if you were a student - "gakusei no you ni" "gakusei datta you ni"
As if it were quiet - "shizuka no you ni" "shizuka datta you ni"
Q7)How can I say �ginstead of�hand �gnothing but�h For example how can I say �gInstead of speaking she kept quiet�h and �gThere is nothing here but the cat�h (ıs there any other saying except �gkoko ni neko sae ga arimasen�h)
A7 - Instead of is "no kawari ni," but in the case of your example sentence, it would simply translate as "kanojo ha, hanasazu ni damatteita." An example using "kawari ni" would be something like, "aka wain no kawari ni shiro wain wo tukaimashita" - "I used white wine instead of red wine."
Nothing but is "shika" followed by a negated verb form. And, just for correctness' sake, since a cat is a living being, you want to use "iru" instead of "aru."
There is nothing here but the cat - "Koko ni ha, neko shika imasen."
Also, "sae" does not mean "nothing but," it means "even." The sentece you have written would actually mean, "there's not even a cat here."
Q8)And finally the word �gfor�h. How can I say �gThis is for you�h My dictionnary says �gtaishite�h but I have never heard it
A8 - I suppose in some sense that "taishite" could mean "for," but for what you want to say you would use "tame ni." Although you could say, "kore ha anata no tame desu," meaning this is for you, it sounds awkward. The more common expression is something like, "anata ni ageru" (I give this to you), or "anata no tame ni tsukurimashita" (I made this for you."
"Taishite," on the other hand, means "for" in the sense of "in the case of."
Eg: "Sono ken ni taishite ha, ashita made ni dasu you ni itte okimashita."
(In the case of that matter, I have asked that it be handed in by tomorrow.)
Hope that helps,
������ _________________
"I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy."
-Bern Williams
Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 6 Location: Istanbul Country:
Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 7:27 pm Post subject:
Hi Kokuou, thank you very much for your responses. Well A1,A2,A3 and A4 are okay. For A5 and A6 I want to ask what is the difference between �gyoo ni�h and �gyoo ni naru�h or is there any difference between them.
(For A8) I think �gni taishite�h and �gno ba ai�h have same meaning am I right?
(For A7) Shika is okay (I should revise this part due to sae/shika confusion at weekend ) I also note that neko is a living being
no kawari ni: As far as I understand no kawari ni is only used for nouns (noun �gno kawari ni�h noun). How can I say �gspeak to me instead of looking�h I don�ft understand the verb �ghanasazu�h in your example. (how hanasu became hanasazu) Could you explain me this change
I want to ask one more thing.
"be used to". How can I say "There used to be a house here" and "I used to love"
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hazukashii.
I'd recommend this site for intermediate level (but I am not sure if it's high enough to help):
I'd be interested to read your thesis once you get it hammered out. Even though I study history...I did avoid the "great men" of Japanese history (even though I'm required to know it still), and I've focused on the outcastes: women (feminists) and the burakumin.
. My kanji level is very poor, but I'm working on it. I really want to teach English in Japan so that I'm exposed to Japanese daily and culturally, but I need to get a TESL certification to get taken seriously.
I also note that neko is a living being 
