This is a VERY stimulating thread, I have to admit...
I have one question... And this is coming from a guy who COULD watch kdramas up the wazoo (we have KBFD-TV in Hawaii) but haven't. So my only viewing experience is Japanese dramas. I also want everyone to be aware that I'm very blinded when it comes to critiquing a culture outside of the U.S. (or even outside of Hawaii for that matter). So if I sound real dumb and ignorant, please be gentle with me...
Do dramas from Japan and Korea reflect their respective real-life cultures? For example, do real-life people in Korea have more social-type challenges than those living in Japan? I'm just wondering that if one type of drama is generally a certain way, then maybe it's because real-life is very much like that.
1. Cancer or terminal illness
2. Mean grandmother
3. Mean mother in law
4. Love Triangle or rectangle or whatever shape
5. Hit by car
6. Suicide by drowning in ocean
7. Parents not approving of some marriage
8. A wedding ceromony
9. A funeral
10. Fire
11. Fight scene
12. Somebody having an affair/cheating
13. Older man younger woman
14. Older woman younger man
15. Somebody having a handicap
Heck...some dramas have all of the above in one drama series!
If they didn't have the stuff above...we probably would not watch these "dramas". They would be too boring...they would be like our ordinary daily lives!
because the stuff you mentioned does happen to everyday life. You think of something else that can relate to people, and not be falling in the a "general" catergory. I don't think you cam find many that falls into making it into a drama. if it, it'll be like a show about a person going to work, coming home, going to work watch TV, eat sleep. how exciting.
This is a VERY stimulating thread, I have to admit...
I have one question... And this is coming from a guy who COULD watch kdramas up the wazoo (we have KBFD-TV in Hawaii) but haven't. So my only viewing experience is Japanese dramas. I also want everyone to be aware that I'm very blinded when it comes to critiquing a culture outside of the U.S. (or even outside of Hawaii for that matter). So if I sound real dumb and ignorant, please be gentle with me...
Do dramas from Japan and Korea reflect their respective real-life cultures? For example, do real-life people in Korea have more social-type challenges than those living in Japan? I'm just wondering that if one type of drama is generally a certain way, then maybe it's because real-life is very much like that.
--- groink
If you watched "I not Stupid", singapore is very much like that.
Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 1249 Location: USA Country:
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:40 am Post subject:
BmwM3Rod wrote:
. . . Somebody name me one single drama (Japanese, Korean, or even Chinese) that didn't have ANY of the following:
1. Cancer or terminal illness
2. Mean grandmother
3. Mean mother in law
4. Love Triangle or rectangle or whatever shape
5. Hit by car
6. Suicide by drowning in ocean
7. Parents not approving of some marriage
8. A wedding ceromony
9. A funeral
10. Fire
11. Fight scene
12. Somebody having an affair/cheating
13. Older man younger woman
14. Older woman younger man
15. Somebody having a handicap
Heck...some dramas have all of the above in one drama series!
If they didn't have the stuff above...we probably would not watch these "dramas". They would be too boring...they would be like our ordinary daily lives!
Hhaha. This is an EXCELLENT list, I think. I certainly can't think of one show that doesn't have at least ONE of those.
BmwM3Rod, your reward oughta' be from a Japanese and/or Korean network to do an original script. Seriously.
They are all practically the same. Somebody name me one single drama (Japanese, Korean, or even Chinese) that didn't have ANY of the following:
This list reminds me of an old American country music song someone wrote describing other country music songs. For a song to be a truly a country music song, it had to have ONE or more of the following:
So he wrote what he called a TRUE country music song, basically looking something like this: "I just got out of prison, had a few drinks, crawled my way home, and then found out my mama got hit by a train."
Joined: 03 Oct 2002 Posts: 539 Location: Australia Country:
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:55 am Post subject:
First of all thanks zola for your insight into what goes on in Korea, we non-korean speaking folks have a hard time figuring this out.
zola wrote:
ara, hahaha, well here goes a couple replies ^_^
First, I err, live in the states so I too don't live in Japan/Korea (though i have lived in Korea for my childhood). Anyhoo, I guess I'm wondering how you see your dramas. The way I see mine is that because I'm a fansubber, many of my friends (within the fansubbing 'world') have collections/dumps of drama files. Being a Kdrama fansubber as well and frequenter of soompi's kdrama forum, I get my Kdramas from there. Since I'm Korean, I can watch the Kdramas without any subtitles of any sort and for the jdramas, one of my close friends who is fluent in japanese makes me scripts.
The reason I ask this is because I'm wondering how you watched your drama series - through vcds from hk/taiwan/china (i.e. popular overseas stuff) or if you just had access to some assorted collection with subbed and unsubbed footage. I find that more jdramas tend to have some sort of subtitling - at least in the vcd realm so I could see why you'd be able to watch more of those.
I watch from all types of sources.
1. Tapes from local store (vietnamese dubbed because I can understand it)
2. Trading with people who have tapes/encodes of Korean dramas with english subtitles on Ch8 and ChS (? not sure of that channel but the logo is a big S), KBFD Network and the Golden Nippon Network.
3. Buying them through online stores, some korean dramas are released with english subtitles e.g. Summer Scent and All In.
zola wrote:
Which leads me to that list you made. All of those are of one type. Even within Japan, dramas are divided between like romance stories or comedies, action based, anime based, etc. It is the same in Korea - I'm not sure exactly how things are done in Japan but in Korea, between 9 PM and 12 midnite, is considered the 'melodrama' period for dramas - just about all dramas dealing with some type of love story or more serious plot are shown during that time. (Remember that Korean culture is extremely conservative - the late times is to prevent kids from watching the dramas ^^; - go figure)
Exactly my point, there is little variety that is available to viewers outside of Korea, they're mostly of one type. Even comedy such as Attic Cat descended into melodrama towards the end.
zola wrote:
Anyhoo, most of the other dramas I listed are shown at other times not during those hours. These days, things are changing a little since Koreans themselves are getting sick of melodramatic stuff. And viewership is starting to change from 10 PM (which used to be the peak time for # of people watching TV) to earlier dinner hours which is when the more lighthearted/variety dramas are aired.
Autumn Fairy Tale was NOT very popular in Korea. Just like the other 2 seasons dramas, it did NOT take the first spot as most popular drama (err, i think winter sonata did for 2 or 4 episodes but that was it). And yet, Autumn Fairy Tale and Winter Sonata are used as the two most prominent examples of Kdramas - why? I don't really know. All I can say is that it's popularity in other Asian countries far exceeded that in Korea - which reflects the tastes of those countries and NOT Korea. I agree with you that your judgments can only be based on what you have access to but at the same time, all the Indian people in my area are really really wealthy and drive BMWs/benz's,etc. But India is one of the poorest nations in the world. Just because I only see one stereotype and haven't seen the rest mean I can judge a whole culture on that basis.
You keep saying Autumn Fairy Tale is not popular but since you're a regular at soompi I will direct to you those hardcore kdrama guys with the list of top dramas in 2000:
Scroll down to the bottom and you will see Autumn Fairy Tale came in at #2 so how can you say its not popular?
All About Eve came in at #1 and that show while had a more interesting plot line, still shows a lot of the usual traits listed before.
Also, from my list All In was aired last year and had one of the highest rating of 2003. Summer Scent was also on my list and on yours as well.
zola wrote:
Also, in Summer Scent, when I said there wasn't a death, I meant that there was not a death within the series itself. The plot was about a guy who couldn't get over his girlfriend - or rather, was confused. It was NOT, guy meets girl, guy falls in love, girl dies, guy mopes, guy meets new girl, guy is happy again. Rather, it was the latter half. Also, the sister being a bitch? I'd hardly think so in the terms that you originally put - "evil bitch who's main goal is to make life absolutely miserable for the main girl. And if you think about it as you watch. She's NOT that type of person UNTIL she finds out that the main girl is betraying her brother and herself. In a sense, this would make the main girl herself a bitch and that other girl being vindictive. If she truly were the bitch you described, she'd be like Yoori in Stairway to Heaven or the bitch in Tomato, or the bitch in Glass Shoes, etc.
Well to be fair I didn't say or imply it was "guy meets girl, guy falls in love, girl dies, guy mopes, guy meets new girl, guy is happy again" I implied that it showed some of the typical traits I mentioned earlier e.g. Disapproving Parent about marriages and the bitch type character. What I'm saying is they are using these plot devices way too much and its becoming tiring.
zola wrote:
When you mention 'If its only popular in Korea then it doesn't do us any good because we don't get to see it. You may also ask why it is not popular overseas? Can you identify a reason for this?'
My answer is that yes, you DO have access to those files since almost all dramas in korea are captured just like jdramas. And if you look around, most have detailed episode synopses. Also, all I can say about what's popular overseas is that you are seeing what ONE group of people likes.
You need to provide proof that what I'm seeing is just what ONE group of people likes. Like I said before I get my kdrama from a number of different sources each from a different type of community so this theory doesn't hold water IMO.
zola wrote:
In other words, you can't say, "All kdramas are such and such." This is very much like the arguements made against anime. For the past 2 decades, anime was considered extremely violent, loaded with random porn, and terrible compared to disney animation. Why? because we had dragon ballz, we had hentai, we had sailormoon. But was that anime? Of course not and these days, people are realizing that with cartoon network's big push and the growing anime industry in the US. You could say. 'but we only have access to what is popular' but that again does not suffice as an excuse to make a generalization against all of anime culture. The same applies to KDramas. I was ctually recently hired for YesAsia as an independent contractor translator for Kdramas because they were interested in marketing dramas that HAD NOT been bootlegged in other countries and that had been popular within the country itself (I err, can't say any series I'm currently working on because I signed an NDA but given a little time, you'll see the different series that are released).
When I was watching anime during that period I didn't get that feeling. Why? Because I got my animes from a number of different sources, I got it from the chinatown in my city, I got it online, I got it off friends, I got it through irc I even watched it on cartoon network and so had variety. When I get kdramas from a number of different sources, I got it from chinatown in my city, I got it online, I got it off friends, I got it through irc and I even watch it on SBS channel, I did not get much variety. Why? If theres not much variety then generalisation about kdrama I think are valid.
zola wrote:
Hrm... the next comment you make about parental disapproval being an overused plot isn't err... really applicable. What I mean to say is that it is, as someone else mentioned in another post on this thread, an inherent part of Korean culture that the relationship process takes a LONG time in Korea (err, that's not altogether correct in cases such as arranged marriages but marriages involving prior dating, falling in love, etc, take a long time) and almost always, there is parental disapproval. This is just a fact of Korean culture - just as in American soaps and many Japanese dramas, the main couple sleeps together at some point in the drama. To put things in perspective, I could say, "In every jdrama, the couples are always getting laid with each other... that's so overused." It's just a difference in culture. And usually, it doesn't form the crux of the plot (i.e. the plot isn't about a couple trying to convince parents to allow their marriage - there have been a couple dramas about this but they are far different than the dramas you listed). I guess, to be honest, if I were to get married, even to someone of equal social standing, my parents would always be against it until they approved of pretty much everyone and everything about the other family - that's just part of being Korean.
Yes I'm well aware of the conservative nature of the Korean culture, comming from a Vietnamese background I find the 2 culture to be similiar in its social environment. However, as stated before good reasons or not it is an overused plot device. I'm sure they can come up with interesting and long relationship story without having to resort to overcomming the obstacle of disapproving parents yet again but its rare to find such kdrama.
zola wrote:
That list you made is like me saying, how much anime is enough?
And then listing off 20 hentai anime titles. That's not variety. Someone asked in another post how popular the other dramas were and the really big hits in Korea were hardly what you listed. All In was a big hit, yes.
Again, as I said where are all these big hits. I know Da Mo has a project going and I'm eagerly awaiting that. You also listed Summer Scent in your big hit and I've addressed that and I have asserted that Autumn Fairy Tale and All In are not such duds that they should be discounted as a norm for kdramas.
zola wrote:
But the others were relatively popular but weren't the really big hits as the ones that I listed. And why is it that these are the only dramas you saw? Prolly because they're the only ones you had access to (i.e. the ones that appealed to HK and taiwanese ppl to bootleg). Like the Japanese people, Korean broadcast companies hardly care about overseas audiences - which is why almost all the DVDs of great series they have (Dae JangGeum which is a cooking drama and DaMo which is an action/depressing/incredible drama) aren't subtitled.
I would still like to know the reason for why such big hits as they are, are not more available outside of Korea? Korean Movies are readily available on DVD with english subtitles, why not dramas? Whats the reason here?
zola wrote:
Finally, yes, I do have access to many jdramas which aren't subtitled and I am fortunate enough to have japanese fluent and japanese friends. But for the most part, jdramas that I have seen that have equivalent Kdrama counterparts didn't appeal to me - the characterization was too accelerated and many plot elements weren't very thoroughly explained/examined. I guess that's a matter of taste and opinion too but at least when I do make a comparison, I judge based on similar premises rather than say after watching a load of fukada dramas, 'damn, all jdramas have this whiney main character girl and blah blah blah'
(i.e. fukada kyoko drives me crazy ^^
My vietnamese community do not like jdrama and so they do not translate any jdramas at ALL. So in fact it is harder for me to find jdramas then kdramas but I have no problems finding varied themes in jdramas than I do in kdramas.
zola wrote:
on a side note, i'm not trying to flame anyone here and i mean no personal offense. i'm just trying to explain things a little better so that people can see that a lot of their views are reflective of only a small bubble they are within. ^_^
likewise, cheers.
Ruroshin
Last edited by ruroshin on Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:14 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 03 Oct 2002 Posts: 539 Location: Australia Country:
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:57 am Post subject:
BmwM3Rod wrote:
This happened in Majo No Jouken/Forbidden Love too. Hikaru's mom (Hitomi Kuroki) tried killing herself this way
They are all practically the same. Somebody name me one single drama (Japanese, Korean, or even Chinese) that didn't have ANY of the following:
1. Cancer or terminal illness
2. Mean grandmother
3. Mean mother in law
4. Love Triangle or rectangle or whatever shape
5. Hit by car
6. Suicide by drowning in ocean
7. Parents not approving of some marriage
8. A wedding ceromony
9. A funeral
10. Fire
11. Fight scene
12. Somebody having an affair/cheating
13. Older man younger woman
14. Older woman younger man
15. Somebody having a handicap
Heck...some dramas have all of the above in one drama series!
If they didn't have the stuff above...we probably would not watch these "dramas". They would be too boring...they would be like our ordinary daily lives!
You miss the point, the point was not that dramas have these elements in it (that would be silly of course dramas need drama elements )but that a vast majority seem to have the exact same recurring elements in it. After a while it gets a bit old.
Joined: 07 Apr 2002 Posts: 2495 Location: Wales Country:
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:50 am Post subject:
neefo wrote:
because the stuff you mentioned does happen to everyday life. You think of something else that can relate to people, and not be falling in the a "general" catergory. I don't think you cam find many that falls into making it into a drama. if it, it'll be like a show about a person going to work, coming home, going to work watch TV, eat sleep. how exciting.
i agree.. i find that list flawed...
ruroshin wrote:
You miss the point, the point was not that dramas have these elements in it, but that a vast majority seem to have the exact same recurring elements in it. After a while it gets a bit old.
You keep saying Autumn Fairy Tale is not popular but since you're a regular at soompi I will direct to you those hardcore kdrama guys with the list of top dramas in 2000:
Scroll down to the bottom and you will see Autumn Fairy Tale came in at #2 so how can you say its not popular?
All About Eve came in at #1 and that show while had a more interesting plot line, still shows a lot of the usual traits listed before.
Also, from my list All In was aired last year and had one of the highest rating of 2003. Summer Scent was also on my list and on yours as well.
The ratings on soompi that were shown are a combination of soompi replies and of Korean viewership ratings. I think there was a poll before but most of the people who frequent soompi aren't actually Korean. Furthermore, the basis on which I judge popularity is how things are rated when the series ENDs. In Korea, there is a prize called the 'dae sahng' which literally means 'great award' which is the equivalent of an oscar - only it's awarded to a TV series/actor/actress/PD/etc. After Autumn Fairy Tale ended, most of the reviews of the series as a whole were rather scathing. It was commended for being 'a first of it's kind in melodramas' but it was controversial because on a fundamental level, the story amounted to 2 people selfishly going against the wishes of both families and disregarding the objections of their parents - again, this keys in with the Korean culture of obedience and humility before the family.
Also, yes, All In was a tremendous hit and DID win the dae sahng for 2003 - for best drama, best actor, and best PD. In my post, I stated that out of your list, All In was one of the few that was a BIG hit.
Also, if you read my first post carefully, you'll see that the dramas I listed were not ALL big hits - the ones that were, were listed at the bottom - albeit, none of them were very unpopular but the ones I listed at the bottom were very critically acclaimed and even after the series finale, exalted much more. Summer Scent NEVER took a top spot in the ratings. The highest it ever got was to a 4th spot - and that was on rare occasions. What I was listing was a few examples of DIFFERENT drama varieties.
Quote:
Well to be fair I didn't say or imply it was "guy meets girl, guy falls in love, girl dies, guy mopes, guy meets new girl, guy is happy again" I implied that it showed some of the typical traits I mentioned earlier e.g. Disapproving Parent about marriages and the bitch type character. What I'm saying is they are using these plot devices way too much and its becoming tiring.
Err, I don't agree with you (FOR THE PARENTS) in the sense that I don't think those are plot devices at all - those are standard cultural and familial standards. It's kind of like saying that it's too much of a plot device to have someone with an older brother or sister. Or that it's an overused plot device for a married couple to have kids. While it may seem absurd to you, it is a very regular part of Korean social life.
As far as the bitch character - yup, i totally agree with you that it's overused. But I think you're being too specific about it. The idea is that in almost all plots, there is some conflict of some sort and it is generally between people of comflicting views. That much, I'm sure you'd agree with. The overused element comes in when many PDs exaggerate the differences between the people and makes one of them the embodiment of evil and the other the embodiment of good. Yes, I will say that it is used very much - but only in love/melodramas. Furthermore, in Korean society, women are regarded as the fickle and whimsical part of a relationship (i.e. the one's more inclined to be evil - again, Korean patriarchal culture comes up). But as I said, this is only within the melodramas and there are definitely many melodramas that do NOT have this sort of bitch character.
Quote:
You need to provide proof that what I'm seeing is just what ONE group of people likes. Like I said before I get my kdrama from a number of different sources each from a different type of community so this theory doesn't hold water IMO.
my proof is that as you said, you watch dramas that have been subtitled and whoever does the subtitling is the filter through which you can see your dramas. Even with what's aired on SBS - do you watch everything? I'm sure you don't because that would be more than 6 hours of daily drama watching. Also there are 3 dominant drama channels - MBC being the most acclaimed (i.e. as a general rule, MBC dramas get much higher ratings - i don't know why but MBC is considered THE drama station - SBS tries to compete but it's kinda like Coke and Pepsi - one is just dominant). Furthermore, only since 2 years ago has an online service such as that been available. I guess 'ONE group of people likes' should be replaced with 'Koreans like' as in, you're seeing things through a filter instead of what Koreans see.
Quote:
When I was watching anime during that period I didn't get that feeling. Why? Because I got my animes from a number of different sources, I got it from the chinatown in my city, I got it online, I got it off friends, I got it through irc I even watched it on cartoon network and so had variety. When I get kdramas from a number of different sources, I got it from chinatown in my city, I got it online, I got it off friends, I got it through irc and I even watch it on SBS channel, I did not get much variety. Why? If theres not much variety then generalisation about kdrama I think are valid.
uh... there are very few kdrama groups around and the j/hk/cdrama subbing groups that take on kdramas hardly take representative dramas.
Quote:
Again, as I said where are all these big hits. I know Da Mo has a project going and I'm eagerly awaiting that. You also listed Summer Scent in your big hit and I've addressed that and I have asserted that Autumn Fairy Tale and All In are not such duds that they should be discounted as a norm for kdramas.
I think I addressed this above.
Quote:
I would still like to know the reason for why such big hits as they are, are not more available outside of Korea? Korean Movies are readily available on DVD with english subtitles, why not dramas? Whats the reason here?
quite simply, there isn't a market. It takes a lot of time and energy and of course, money, for a broadcasting station to subtitle something. They also have no international branches which would make marketing extremely difficult without third party assistance (which is actually what YesAsia is trying to become now). A movie on the other hand, is just a one time deal that HAS been shown to be popular. Sales for drama series themselves within Korea are much lower than sales of TV series in Korea. 80% of dramas will never make it to DVD - these days things are changing but up until last year, almost no series made it to DVD except daesahng winners/nominees. Again, i don't work for the broadcast stations but i don't think it's a stretch to think that to them, they don't care about world viewers - too much energy and resources would be spent on a very low profit margin. Furthermore, japanese dramas are usually also not translated and how is it that anime is? Because US companies buy the rights - it's not the J-production companies themselves doing the subbing/distribution.
Quote:
My vietnamese community do not like jdrama and so they do not translate any jdramas at ALL. So in fact it is harder for me to find jdramas then kdramas but I have no problems finding varied themes in jdramas than I do in kdramas.
But because you are not forced to see through that one field of view or preference, you can get from a much more diverse group. Once you start watching kdramas that are from one source, you get used to that source and form opinions of it. Then you find another source, but this source too is subtitled and again limited. You finally go to SBS itself to watch but in those too, you don't have the time or the resources (or even the knowledge of the language) to find the dramas you're looking for. ANYTHING on japanese tv is relatively easy to obtain. I myself have direct contact with some people who capture everything from just commercials to dramas, to anime, to news, etc. Korean TV isn't like that - I'm sure it could be but the few groups that DO capture (jiniabba, Arirang, and there's like 3 more) only capture prime time dramas and clips/commercials that have to do with that. I CAN NOT explain why this is so - only that it is. Almost all anime aired in Japan also gets aired in Korea with Korean dubbing - yet, to find captures of these is immensely difficult. Some Japanese broadcast companies have bought the rights to certain Kdramas and will hopefully be airing them soon and I'm sure it'll be easier to obtain those. Why? I don't know. But my not knowing doesn't indicate that something is or isn't.
The last thing I'll say is that the list I made for you were either relatively popular or big hits and if you ask, I will list more (so you can either look for the dramas yourself or what not). But they all represent different categories of dramas. Take for instance now. What is the current top drama in Korea right now - and has been for almost every week except for a few weeks when Stairway to Heaven barely beat it out? Dae Jang-Geum. Have you even heard of it? Do you know what it's about? I doubt it. Why? because the people you hear and watch this kdramas from are people who have a particular set of interests and preferences. Even on soompi, the thread for that drama is tiny compared to summer scent which never had the extreme popularity dae jang-geum does. What about da mo? that drama you REALLY need subtitles for because the beauty of it comes in the poetic dialogue - it's really hard to tell what's going on without knowing the language. Almost all of the dramas that have been in the top spot are not melodramas. Stairway to Heaven was, yes. All In wasn't considered melodramatic though I conceded that it did have some melodramatic elements and that was huge. But for the most part, melodramas don't reign supreme in Korea - they're popular but not the most watched. To give another example would be to point out that #4 on that soompi list (Hu Joon) set a record for highest viewership ratings in Korea for a drama (since then, maybe the record was broken but I remember it being a huge event on the news because they should traffic records of cars being all busy and then during the hour that Hu Joon aired, the streets were dead).
On a side note, Dae Jang-Geum is a true story about a girl who's mom was murdered (shot with an arrow) and who was destined to be the top royal court cook but a conspiracy within the government framed her for the attempted murder of the King... blah blah blah... and ultimately she ends up becoming the only female royal court doctor in the history of Korea. There's no one evil bitch (well, there are many evil people) but that's because of the whole conspiracy to gain control of the countries resources/etc which is different from the evil bitch concept.
take care yo,
~zola
Oh yah, #kdrama released "A Good Person" - a drama that was popular (though not a big hit) in Korea that also doesn't have an evil bitch, doesn't have parental disapproval, isn't a tear jerker, the people who die in there are all murdered (one is run over - but it's an act of murder - NOT a car accident - there is a big difference between a traffic accident and someone jumping in a car and trying to run over someone shooting at him) (the other guy is stabbed) (the last guy is thrown off the top of a building). I really loved this drama ^_^
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Posts: 154 Location: USA Country:
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:30 am Post subject:
ruroshin wrote:
You miss the point, the point was not that dramas have these elements in it (that would be silly of course dramas need drama elements )but that a vast majority seem to have the exact same recurring elements in it. After a while it gets a bit old.
Ruroshin
I actually think you miss the point. For those of you complaining about the same old stuff...what you need to understand is that the "elements" tend to be the same but how they are handled and treated are different.
That's why I listed all those above "drama elements". All of them have at least something of what I posted above. Like somebody else said...who wants to watch a drama where they wake up in the morning, take a shower (ooh a shower scene that might be hot ), get dressed, drive to work, work, eat lunch, work, drive home, eat dinner, read Jdorama.com, then go sleep and start all over.
For example...some recent cancer or terminal illness Korean dramas I have watched are Yellow Handkerchief, Upon the Greenfields, and Rosemary. But how and why they got them and the message being sent are all different. At least that is what I got out of it.
I think it's easy to say...oh the same old stuff but if you really are into the drama and try and go deeper and determine what message is being sent it makes it more interesting
Joined: 03 Oct 2002 Posts: 539 Location: Australia Country:
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:09 am Post subject:
No I don't think they are handled all that different. E.g Whenever someone gets cancer everyone pretty much reacts the same way and the message is always the same "Oh no its terrible how sad...why it did it have to happen to our characters" Beautiful Days, Glass Shoe, Autumn Fairy Tale etc. How are they handled any different? Bottom line is this is a cheap plot device designed to invoke emotion from the viewer but instead I just roll my eyes because they doing it yet again.
I still think your list is flawed because you list common everyday occurances and try to say "look this happens in all drama". Its not a convincing argument. Why don't you narrow down your list to 4 items that are specific traits of jdrama and occurs in a majority of jdrama that you've seen.
For example these are specific traits of chinese wuxia series:
1. Character is fleeing from enemies but he finds himself going to a cliff, with no choice left he jumps off the cliff. Character never dies from this.
2. Character's parents are usually killed off early on leaving the main character to grow up with somebody else. Later tries and get revenge for parent.
3. The "good" orthodox schools will have some of the most evil people in it.
4. There is usually a martial art manual that will make you uber powerful upon learning it. These will be either long forgotten or hidden at the bottom cliff
Now this is an example of a bad list which is what you tried to do:
1. There are people fighting
2. People jump high
3. People die.
4. There are martial arts
Joined: 28 Nov 2003 Posts: 78 Location: Where Gavagai Roam Country:
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:54 am Post subject:
ruroshin wrote:
For example these are specific traits of chinese wuxia series:
1. Character is fleeing from enemies but he finds himself going to a cliff, with no choice left he jumps off the cliff. Character never dies from this.
2. Character's parents are usually killed off early on leaving the main character to grow up with somebody else. Later tries and get revenge for parent.
3. The "good" orthodox schools will have some of the most evil people in it.
4. There is usually a martial art manual that will make you uber powerful upon learning it. These will be either long forgotten or hidden at the bottom cliff
OMG! That's so true! And that's what makes the wuxia dramas so great to watch! Except for The Battlefield but I think that's because it was based on historical events.
Also to add another one to your list:
5. The main villian is always equally powerful to the main protagonist and he (usually it is a he) never elicits any sympathy from the viewers, just because he's usually pure evil.
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Posts: 154 Location: USA Country:
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:00 am Post subject:
ruroshin wrote:
No I don't think they are handled all that different. E.g Whenever someone gets cancer everyone pretty much reacts the same way and the message is always the same "Oh no its terrible how sad...why it did it have to happen to our characters" Beautiful Days, Glass Shoe, Autumn Fairy Tale etc. How are they handled any different? Bottom line is this is a cheap plot device designed to invoke emotion from the viewer but instead I just roll my eyes because they doing it yet again.
I still think your list is flawed because you list common everyday occurances and try to say "look this happens in all drama". Its not a convincing argument. Why don't you narrow down your list to 4 items that are specific traits of jdrama and occurs in a majority of jdrama that you've seen.
For example these are specific traits of chinese wuxia series:
1. Character is fleeing from enemies but he finds himself going to a cliff, with no choice left he jumps off the cliff. Character never dies from this.
2. Character's parents are usually killed off early on leaving the main character to grow up with somebody else. Later tries and get revenge for parent.
3. The "good" orthodox schools will have some of the most evil people in it.
4. There is usually a martial art manual that will make you uber powerful upon learning it. These will be either long forgotten or hidden at the bottom cliff
Now this is an example of a bad list which is what you tried to do:
1. There are people fighting
2. People jump high
3. People die.
4. There are martial arts
Ruroshin...sorry but you are just way off from where I am coming from. Let's go over some recent cancer/terminally ill dramas with Upon the Greenfields, Yellow Handkerchief, and Rosemary. Warning...do not read further as it might be a spoiler for some people.
Upon the Greenfields - In this story...the person who gets ill doesn't get sick until near the end of the drama. Everything is going perfect for this family. He justs got married not too long ago and got a sales award and the entire family was happy and then he started to feel sick. He did nothing abusive or bad to make himself sick. But he always projected a positive attitude towards everything. He went to the doctor and found out he was going to die in 6 months per the doctors. If he had a surgery...he might make it. He decides he doesn't want the chemotherapy treatment and he doesn't want to spend his dying days in a bed and looking terrible and his family to feel sorry for him.
In the end he decides to have the surgery and the family and himself have the belief that he will indeed make it. Their outlook is positive and the message is....if you believe enough...miracles can happen.
Yellow Handkerchief - This drama is actually about adoption and how Korea's laws are somewhat unfair to the adoptive parents and the certain rights that blood fathers have over that of the adoptive dad. The person who gets the cancer does so by abusive drinking or at least that is the message that is sent. The person who gets cancer isn't even all that of a nice guy in the beginning of the story and it gets to a point where you hate his character based on his unreasonable thinking and the things he did and how cruel he was.
Now this character ends up dying but while sick he changes and starts to understand where he is wrong. On the other side...those who hated him for the bad things he did...still...nobody wanted to see him get cancer and die and since he changed they grieved on his passing. Prior to him dying much reconciliation occurred.
Again...much different message IMO.
Rosemary - This time it is a mom and wife who gets cancer. It happens early in the story line. She did nothing necessarily to cause this cancer. Good mother and wife and happy family. Dad/husband is very dependent on wife. Kids are young who depend on mom.
Mom realizes she must be gone. They do whatever is necessary to try and make her well. Even the mom doesn't want to be sick because she knows she can't afford to be.
A 3rd person enters. A female who has an abusive dad and is a loner and has had a hard life and has experienced nothing close to a happy family situation. She works for the husband/dad. They get to know eachother...and the girl starts liking the husband/dad in a certain innocent way. But she likes the mom and kids too and wishes she had a family life like they do. She helps out and takes care of things.
The mom worrying about her kids and husband starts to see this girl as a replacement for her. She loves her husband and kids so much and worries about them...she wants to make sure somebody is there to take care of them. Husband can't believe his wife could think this. The girl is shocked too. While the ending doesn't necessarily merge the girl into this new family it is somewhat open to interpretation.
Message I got...there is a lot of love that can be out there between a family. The husband would do anything for the wife and vice versa. No regrets on either side in the end even though she died.
So again to me much different on how each was treated and the outcome. I could go on about other common "drama elements".
It's easy to say and kind of make fun of and say oh they are all the same.
And I don't list common daily events. You go to a funeral everyday? A wedding? Does everybody have a mean grandmother? Mother in law? How about having an affair...is that a daily occurence for you
OMG! That's so true! And that's what makes the wuxia dramas so great to watch! Except for The Battlefield but I think that's because it was based on historical events.
Also to add another one to your list:
5. The main villian is always equally powerful to the main protagonist and he (usually it is a he) never elicits any sympathy from the viewers, just because he's usually pure evil.
Yay..that what makes me love to watch Wuxia series...they're so good and in fact if you want to make ppl so evil, bitchy, suicidal, drunkard..etc..it still be good. I love wuxia series!!
Joined: 03 Oct 2002 Posts: 539 Location: Australia Country:
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:21 pm Post subject:
Sorry BmwM3Rod, I can't continue the debate with you because I haven't seen those dramas yet and I don't want to read further in your post because of soliers.
the most shocking K-ending drama for me, is probably the drama that i'm watching right now called What Happened in Bali?
It's definately not ur typical K-drama. everyone has their own flaws, you seem to sympathize with their actions because of the circumstances. there are no real definative good/ bad character.
surprisingly, the main actress sleeps with both the male leads, one rich who can buy her everything, one not so rich who she lived next to.. however, unlike the girl 100% sure she loves the not so rich guy, in this drama she realizes at the end that she was in actuality in love w/ the rich guy (however it's too late cuz the rich guy shoots both the not so rich guy and the girl in bed after they made love and then he commits suicide after realizing that she loved him).
Lee Soo Jung:
I love you... the word's I couldn't say...'I'm sorry... it's too late right...i'm sorry...you must have been in pain right...i'm sorry...i'm sorry'
. '사랑해요... ' 하지못한말.. '미안해요... 너무 늦었죠... 미안해요.. 너무 아팠죠.. 미안해요... 미안해요...'
Jung Jae Min:
'I love you too...I'm sorry too...Don't die...Lee Soo Jung...Don't die...I'm sorry...I'm sorry'
'나두 사랑해... 나두 미안해... 죽지마.. 이수정.. 죽지마..... 미안해.. 미안해.. '
background info on pic:
So Ji Sup (SJS) and Ha Ji Won (HJW) talk in bed (implication is they made love) and HJW asks SJS what he's thinking.
SJS replies he and HJW must be destined. HJW asks SJS if he really doesn't plan to return to korea.
SJS: i have no plans to return there. are you happy?
HJW: i feel uneasy. i feel like i'm at a place that has no relation to me. i thought this would be paradise...
SJS: maybe you still have lingering feelings.
HJW: there is no such thing.
SJS: when i look at you i see sadness.. i saw sadness at the airport too.. and i was trying to figure out why.. then i realized it's because you left your heart (in korea).
HJW: (cries) i really didn't want to give him my heart too.. i wanted to protect my heart w/ my last pride. i'm sorry... i'm really sorry.
SJS: (cries) if you need to go back then go back. i will be here when you return.
HJW: --- (weeps in SJS's arms)
HJW then turns to see JIS standing there with a pistol. JIS shoots SJS, then shoots HJW. HJW w/ blood on her neck stares at JIS.
JIS, realizing what he just did, runs toward HJW.
HJW: (gasping) i love you. (then stops breathing)
JIS bursts into tear. at night JIS walks on the beach and points the pistol at his own head and shoots.
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)but that a vast majority seem to have the exact same recurring elements in it. After a while it gets a bit old. 
