Joined: 09 Apr 2004 Posts: 3437 Location: Sao Paulo Country:
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:09 am Post subject:
Wow, groink, great pics of Shinichi-san, where did you find them ????
Well, geezer, I desagree with you about Shinnosuke's acting. Maybe he doesn't have (maybe 'cos of his age, he's only 26) all that charisma who made Toshiro Mifune so famous (altough I can't say about Mifune's acting in Musashi's trilogy, 'cos I've never seen those movies, they aren't avaible here in Brazil), but I think he's very talented and played his role with dignity. Maybe I'm a bit biased, but that's my opinion about him anyway.
About the fight scenes, some of them are really poor, but the series also had great moments. And in this point, I have to praise Mabo for his job , 'cos his fight scenes as Kojiro are terrific. (Maybe I'm biased again, but ...).
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Posts: 154 Location: USA Country:
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:00 am Post subject:
Man...I love that sword Kojiro has. I want to get one like it.
For me personally...I enjoyed the Musashi series more than the trilogy by Toshiro Mifune. Maybe it's because I have such a bad video of it.
The music was great for this most recent Musashi series.
Anybody know how often Musashi used his two blades in a fight sequence. I believe it was only once against Toji. I know he used the two wooden sticks in some combats.
Supposedly...Musashi was famous for using both blades but we hardly see it when he fightsl.
Best fight scene was Musashi against the chain and sickle guy.
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Posts: 3125 Location: S.F. Bay Area Country:
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:02 am Post subject: You disagree with me!!!!!
Betsy,
In disagreeing with me you've joined a rather non-exclusive club.
But that's okay. I figure that if something about Shinnosuke's performance engendered a positive bias in you... he must be doing something right.
One note. I hope it didn't sound as if I was comparing Shinnosuke's performance to that of Mifune.
I brought up the Samuri Trilogy simply because that's where I first learned about Musashi's story. And it was because I liked the story that I was looking forward to seeing what NHK could do with so many hours of TV time to work with.
As to the fight scenes... that statement I'm sticking by. Heck, this is Musashi! for Pete's sake. The original bad boy... the best of the best... THE Samuri!.
People can talk about the introspective take this show tried all they want. (That's you bmw), But the fights, the fencing matches, the battles, are the integral core of the Musashi story. And with all the advances in camera techniques, editing, and special effects, I thought they could have, and should have, done a much better job.
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:27 am Post subject: Re: You disagree with me!!!!!
Geezer wrote:
People can talk about the introspective take this show tried all they want. (That's you bmw),
Singled out again.
Quote:
But the fights, the fencing matches, the battles, are the integral core of the Musashi story. And with all the advances in camera techniques, editing, and special effects, I thought they could have, and should have, done a much better job.
I agree that they could have done a better job, but some of the swordplay was pretty good... Again, was the swordplay in The Samurai Trilogy that much better or frequent? I think it still focused on the Musashi's evolution more than his 60+ duels...
That said, I'm still waiting for the definitive film on Miyamoto Musashi...
Joined: 09 Apr 2004 Posts: 3437 Location: Sao Paulo Country:
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:00 am Post subject: Re: You disagree with me!!!!!
Geezer wrote:
Betsy,
In disagreeing with me you've joined a rather non-exclusive club.
But that's okay. I figure that if something about Shinnosuke's performance engendered a positive bias in you... he must be doing something right.
One note. I hope it didn't sound as if I was comparing Shinnosuke's performance to that of Mifune.
I brought up the Samuri Trilogy simply because that's where I first learned about Musashi's story. And it was because I liked the story that I was looking forward to seeing what NHK could do with so many hours of TV time to work with.
As to the fight scenes... that statement I'm sticking by. Heck, this is Musashi! for Pete's sake. The original bad boy... the best of the best... THE Samuri!.
People can talk about the introspective take this show tried all they want. (That's you bmw), But the fights, the fencing matches, the battles, are the integral core of the Musashi story. And with all the advances in camera techniques, editing, and special effects, I thought they could have, and should have, done a much better job.
Wow, do you really think the series was that bad ???
I don't think so. The series wasn't perfect, I agree it wasn't a superproduction, but I think it was good.
I didn't see th Mifune's trilogy, so I can't talk about these movies.
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Posts: 3125 Location: S.F. Bay Area Country:
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:38 pm Post subject: The Swordplay
bmwracer,
I'm really not comparing the swordplay to the Samuri movies of the 50s.
I'm looking at movies like:
1977's "The Duellists" with Harvey Keitel and Keith Carradine.
Or
1987's "The Princess Bride" with that great fight between Mandy Patinkin and Cary ELwes.
Now none of those four guys were accomplished fencers. They're just actors. In fact, I doubt any of them had ever picked up a sword before those movies.
But the way those fight scenes were choreographed... the way they were filmed and edited... made them outstanding.
Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Posts: 51 Location: USA Country:
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: The Swordplay
Geezer wrote:
bmwracer,
I'm really not comparing the swordplay to the Samurai movies of the 50s.
I'm looking at movies like:
1977's "The Duellists" with Harvey Keitel and Keith Carradine.
Or
1987's "The Princess Bride" with that great fight between Mandy Patinkin and Cary ELwes.
Now none of those four guys were accomplished fencers. They're just actors. In fact, I doubt any of them had ever picked up a sword before those movies.
But the way those fight scenes were choreographed... the way they were filmed and edited... made them outstanding.
Maybe I was just expecting too much.
I tend to agree with Geezer. And you might as well add the duel between Erroll (sp?) Flynn and Basil Rathbone in The Adventures of Robin Hood and the duel between Tyrone Power and Basil Rathbone in the Zorro movie. I have to admit that the duels Musashi was in weren't, for the most part, as powerful as I was hoping. However, I think Ichikawa Shinnosuke was the best actor for Musashi I've seen, even better than Toshiro Mifune, in the sense of portraying someone who had violence in him and yet a seed of humanity that grew, because of his experiences, into something greater than simply a swordfighter.
I agree with bmwracer that there was more introspection, which is needed in a story like this. Again, I don't buy the idea that we had a lean mean fighting machine who suddenly achieved some sort of enlightenment, and we see no process of getting there. But I'd love to see that balanced with more powerful swordfighting, which I didn't see. I liked Sasaki Kojiro's fighting, however.
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: The Swordplay
Duneman wrote:
I tend to agree with Geezer. And you might as well add the duel between Erroll (sp?) Flynn and Basil Rathbone in The Adventures of Robin Hood and the duel between Tyrone Power and Basil Rathbone in the Zorro movie.
Those are two classic duels on film. Hard to compare any duels with those two gold standards.
Quote:
I have to admit that the duels Musashi was in weren't, for the most part, as powerful as I was hoping.
I'd go along with that. I think they were better than most in Inagaki's Samurai Trilogy, which people seem to hold in high regard.
Quote:
However, I think Ichikawa Shinnosuke was the best actor for Musashi I've seen, even better than Toshiro Mifune, in the sense of portraying someone who had violence in him and yet a seed of humanity that grew, because of his experiences, into something greater than simply a swordfighter.
Yes. Mifune's rendition was much more restrained. You expected him to blow up at any time, yet he never did.
Quote:
I agree with bmwracer that there was more introspection, which is needed in a story like this. Again, I don't buy the idea that we had a lean mean fighting machine who suddenly achieved some sort of enlightenment, and we see no process of getting there. But I'd love to see that balanced with more powerful swordfighting, which I didn't see. I liked Sasaki Kojiro's fighting, however.
Again, I agree. I think if they did choreograph or extend some of the battles/duels a little better, this could've been great.
I only vaguely recall the Miyamoto Musashi version starring Yakusho Koji. I wonder how this compares. Or the Miyamoto Musashi version from the 60's starring Nakamura Kinnosuke.... Hmmmmm.
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