Learning Kanji

Hi I have memorized hiragana and katakana using Dr.Moku only to realize that I still have to learn kanji, are there any recommendations on how I can learn kanji painlessly ?

^ If by "painlessly", you mean "quick and easy", I don't think there's any such way.
Just —ûK, —ûK, —ûK (practice, practice, practice).

Let me tell you about something that happened to me once: They have a Japanese grocery store here called Mitsuwa Marketplace. They have a bulletin board where people put up notices of apartments to rent, things for sale, stuff like that. A lot of it is written in Japanese and I'll usually stop by and read it just for practice. One time I was reading something, came across a kanji I didn't know and asked the guy next to me (who was Japanese-American) what it was. He looked at it and turned to the guy next to him (also Japanese-American) and asked, "Hey, what's this character?" Fortunately, the third guy knew it! So see, kanji can even drive Japanese crazy!

I agree that there's no painless way to learn it. You just try to make it easy by finding a Kanji learning method that works for you.

For example, I learned by rote memorization. But that is not random memorization. I memorize kanji that I encounter in my lessons. It is easier if you learn them by context. Instead of just memorizing how it looks like, how it is written, and what it means, learn it in a sentence so you also know how it is used. I hope that makes sense ^^;;

Other people have benefitted from Heisig's method. I tried it but it wasn't for me. But a lot of people love it, though. Others swear by flashcards -- whether the paper ones (White Rabbit Press) or smartphone apps.

So just find a method that works for you and stick to a study schedule. Good luck!

SgtPepper wrote:I agree that there's no painless way to learn it. You just try to make it easy by finding a Kanji learning method that works for you.

For example, I learned by rote memorization. But that is not random memorization. I memorize kanji that I encounter in my lessons. It is easier if you learn them by context. Instead of just memorizing how it looks like, how it is written, and what it means, learn it in a sentence so you also know how it is used. I hope that makes sense ^^;;

Other people have benefitted from Heisig's method. I tried it but it wasn't for me. But a lot of people love it, though. Others swear by flashcards -- whether the paper ones (White Rabbit Press) or smartphone apps.

So just find a method that works for you and stick to a study schedule. Good luck!

Hi can you please tell me if reading manga or magazine is a better way of learning japanese so I know how it is used ? Please recommend me a manga or magazine I can start with, thank you.

RisingSun wrote:

Hi can you please tell me if reading manga or magazine is a better way of learning japanese so I know how it is used ? Please recommend me a manga or magazine I can start with, thank you.

That's a good question! I started out reading Japanese baseball magazines because I knew enough about baseball that I could figure out what they were talking about even if I didn't know all the words. So I would say try a magazine that is about something you already like or are interested in.

And even if you don't understand everything, that's okay. It's going to be frustrating, especially at first, that's normal.

My recommendation would be the same as Sgt Pepper. Start with study books and learn the Kanjis as they come. I do think studying Kanjis alone makes no sense at all, grammar, listening, speaking skills and vocabulary are very much essential too. As for study books, there are tons out there but pick one that doesn't use romaji since you can already read hiragana and katakana.

If it's any consolation, I have been in Japan now for a year and a half studying full time and I still can't read all 2000 required Kanjis. I started my first real book a few days ago, Breakfast at Tiffany's translated by Haruki Murakami, and I still have to look up four, five words per page.

PS: I also dislike the Helsing method, where you learn the Kanjis stroke order and meaning in English first and then once that's done, you learn how to pronounce them. Not efficient for someone like me who has to communicate in Japanese on a daily basis. But I agree, it seems to work well with a lot of native English speakers.

I think stroke order is useful, in that you learn how the character is constructed and the radicals used. Sometimes just from the radicals, you can guess the meaning of the character. Learning the correct stroke order also means you learn how to write a character properly. But that's because I understand Chinese and it was how I learnt those characters, so I find that it helps when it comes to familiarising myself with kanji. I still get pretty boggled by the kunyomi and onyomi, though, so context is important.

I do agree with others that it's better to pick a method you're comfortable with, and start with a topic you are interested in. That usually makes studying kanji a little easier.

RisingSun wrote:

Hi can you please tell me if reading manga or magazine is a better way of learning japanese so I know how it is used ? Please recommend me a manga or magazine I can start with, thank you.

A good way to start is to find out which magazines/manga you are interested in, like Gaijinmark said.
I am interested in design, fashion, health and beauty so I get Anecan, Vivi and Deco :P
On my browser favourites, I have saved the entertainment section of some Japanese online papers.
When I read them, I have the Chrome app "Rikaichan" on so I can easily mouse over a Kanji I don't know.
Try it and let us know how you are getting along :)

Speaking of how hard it is. I was over at Nisei Week today and as part of the festivities they have a calligraphy demonstration. These are people that do this stuff as a hobby but still, they're very good. Anyway, at one point two of them were talking about how you write a particular kanji and one person is saying, "You write it like this." And someone else said, "No, I think it's like this." They discussed it back and forth for awhile.

Now if they have trouble remembering it, what do hope to the rest of us have?!!? :bonk:

A quick question about Kanji if I may. :)

I'm starting to try to learn Kanji and there are two readings for each Kanji. Do I need to memorize both along with the Kanji? Is one more common than another?

*lights the junny or gaijinmark signal*

Thanks!

maxcriden wrote:A quick question about Kanji if I may. :)

I'm starting to try to learn Kanji and there are two readings for each Kanji. Do I need to memorize both along with the Kanji? Is one more common than another?

*lights the junny or gaijinmark signal*

Thanks!

Yes, you need to learn both the kunyomi and onyomi. Some kanji only have one reading, but most have two or more. I don't think one is more common than the other, it really depends on context, grammar and pronunciation. For example, even in place names, you have both: Tokyo and Hokkaido are both onyomi, while Nagano, Aomori and Kumamoto are kunyomi. The kanji “ú can have onyomi readings ‚É‚¿ (nichi) or ‚¶‚ (jitsu), and kunyomi readings ‚Ð (hi), ‚Ñ (bi) or ‚© (ka). There are guidelines, but since there are so many exceptions, even the Japanese themselves can sometimes get confused.

Yup, it's like junny said, you need to learn both. All I can say is —ûKA—ûKA—ûK.

I can't remember any off the top of my head, but I've seen a few dramas where there's a running joke about somebody always getting their name mispronounced because everybody reads the kanji wrong. So even the Japanese know their language can be confusing sometimes. :hehe:

junny wrote:

Yes, you need to learn both the kunyomi and onyomi. Some kanji only have one reading, but most have two or more. I don't think one is more common than the other, it really depends on context, grammar and pronunciation. For example, even in place names, you have both: Tokyo and Hokkaido are both onyomi, while Nagano, Aomori and Kumamoto are kunyomi. The kanji “ú can have onyomi readings ‚É‚¿ (nichi) or ‚¶‚ (jitsu), and kunyomi readings ‚Ð (hi), ‚Ñ (bi) or ‚© (ka). There are guidelines, but since there are so many exceptions, even the Japanese themselves can sometimes get confused.

gaijinmark wrote:Yup, it's like junny said, you need to learn both. All I can say is —ûKA—ûKA—ûK.

I can't remember any off the top of my head, but I've seen a few dramas where there's a running joke about somebody always getting their name mispronounced because everybody reads the kanji wrong. So even the Japanese know their language can be confusing sometimes. :hehe:

Thank you both! Domo arigatou gozaimasu. I'll work diligently to learn both meanings.

One follow up question, is it fair to assume that the exception to this is numbers 1-10, excepting 4 and 7, as it seems those (all except 4 and 7) only use one reading typically? Thanks!

There are three numbers (1,2,3) that can also be read differently when theyfre used in boys names...like ichi = kazu, ni = ji, and san = zabu...they usually tell if the boy is the first, second or third son...

maxcriden wrote:

Thank you both! Domo arigatou gozaimasu. I'll work diligently to learn both meanings.

One follow up question, is it fair to assume that the exception to this is numbers 1-10, excepting 4 and 7, as it seems those (all except 4 and 7) only use one reading typically? Thanks!

Again, depends. There's the Sino-Japanese (ichi, ni, san, etc), and the Native Japanese (hitotsu, futatsu, mittsu, etc, which is used up to 10). There's another set for days. And there's a ton of counters, which when used with numbers, changes the pronunciation of certain numbers.

For example, if you want two apples, you'd say "ringo futatsu, kudasai" instead of "ringo ni". Something that happened "3 days ago", you'd say "mikka mae". 20 years old is usually "hatachi" instead of "ni ju sai" (although if I remember right, sometimes "ni ju sai" is also okay, but I stand corrected).

In addition to 4 and 7, 9 also gets a special reading. You don't say "kyu ji" for 9 o'clock. You say "ku ji".

maxcriden, not trying to pass the buck here, but any Japanese language questions, I would say go thru the threads here and if you see one that might apply to your question any posts by kokuou - READ THEM!

She was the first moderator for this thread and really knows her stuff when it comes to Nihongo. If her post doesn't have the exact answer to what you're looking for she will probably at least get you pointed in the right direction.

Thank you all for your help! I'll look for kokuou's posts. :)