Northern California's KTSF web site

gregsan wrote:

Elton,

I got the DVDs that I ordered from you today. I haven't had time to check them out, but I will. Thanks.

BTW...do you capture most/all stuff that broadcasts in No. Cal? Can I ask what your system of capturing is? I have two dramas (working on 3 now) that are saved on my Tivo (So. Cal broadcasts). The first is Kintaro 4 which I've been starting to digitize. I think I've finally gotten most of the wrinkles worked out to creating a "decent" capture...but it would be nice to know how others are going about their captures (especially those much more experienced than myself), what kind of equipment, etc...

My current capture setup is this:

-output from Directv Tivo to mini DV camcorder. Input DV to computer via firewire and edit out commercials. Convert DV output to Divx.

Hey,

I think your method is pretty close to what bmw is doing with Trick 3 :D

But basically for me I have a DVD-recorder so I just set the timer and the program gets recorded straight to a DVD-RAM. From there I rip the file into an mpeg-2 with tmpenc dvd author and I encode the mpeg-2 into an AVI, cutting the commercials and stuff at that point. Usually when I make DVDs of the series, which is what I did with ep 6 and later of MLC and what I'm doing now with Kougen e Irrashai, I just edit the commercials in Tmpgenc dvd author and then burn which means no re-encode and the quality on those DVDs are equivalent to the TV broadcast itself :D Anyways, hope this helps.

eltinator wrote:

Hey,

I think your method is pretty close to what bmw is doing with Trick 3 :D

But basically for me I have a DVD-recorder so I just set the timer and the program gets recorded straight to a DVD-RAM. From there I rip the file into an mpeg-2 with tmpenc dvd author and I encode the mpeg-2 into an AVI, cutting the commercials and stuff at that point. Usually when I make DVDs of the series, which is what I did with ep 6 and later of MLC and what I'm doing now with Kougen e Irrashai, I just edit the commercials in Tmpgenc dvd author and then burn which means no re-encode and the quality on those DVDs are equivalent to the TV broadcast itself :D Anyways, hope this helps.

Yep, that's basically what I'm doing... Although aren't there uncontrollabe losses (is the compression user-controllable) when recording with TiVo, then transferring it to DV tape?

Similarly, wouldn't you suffer similar degradation recording to DVD-RAM then re-encoding...? I would think you'd edit out the commercials from the original rip to minimize loses from conversion/encoding, etc... Or am I wrong (probably)? :sweat:

bmwracer wrote:
Yep, that's basically what I'm doing... Although aren't there uncontrollabe losses (is the compression user-controllable) when recording with TiVo, then transferring it to DV tape?

Similarly, wouldn't you suffer similar degradation recording to DVD-RAM then re-encoding...? I would think you'd edit out the commercials from the original rip to minimize loses from conversion/encoding, etc... Or am I wrong (probably)? :sweat:

Yup, I think there is a loss of quality involved with any transfer even to DVD-ram. But it's probably minimal, at least from my eyes. Do note that I have like 400 vision :hehe: :hehe:

When I encode to avi, those are definately lower quality than the DVDs themselves. Basically the less encodes you can do the better it is for the video :D

eltinator wrote:Yup, I think there is a loss of quality involved with any transfer even to DVD-ram. But it's probably minimal, at least from my eyes. Do note that I have like 400 vision :hehe: :hehe:

When I encode to avi, those are definately lower quality than the DVDs themselves. Basically the less encodes you can do the better it is for the video :D

Okay, that's what I thought...

So recording on the air directly using a Digital Video Camcorder should be really good, maybe better than a DVR, if there is minimal compression during the tape recording process... :headscratch:

On your DVR can you control the amount of compression (like SP/EP on qa VCR) or is it fixed?

bmwracer wrote:
Okay, that's what I thought...

So recording on the air directly using a Digital Video Camcorder should be really good, maybe better than a DVR, if there is minimal compression during the tape recording process... :headscratch:

On your DVR can you control the amount of compression (like SP/EP on qa VCR) or is it fixed?

What you're referring to is the standalone Tivos. The one great thing about Directv DVR is that there is NO loss on the DVR end since it records the compressed satellite signal not the uncompressed signal you view (thus it should be lossless in the sense that it records exactly as it receives the data from the satellite signal - and the quality is therefore "fixed"). Therefore...basically recording from my Directv Tivo to Miniv DV is similar to recording the live footage straight to Mini DV. Granted all of this is dependent on the quality of the signal that Directv outputs (since they do some compression on their end - differently for certain channels to save bandwidth) and the quality of the feed they receive from my local channels.

The picture quality is pretty good (in my eyes as well)...but I've been having problems where some of the motion seems "jerky" when encoding to Divx. I've been playing with the settings to see if I can correct this since the fairly motionless scenes are pretty sharp. Hopefully I'll work out the kinks.

Thanks for the help!!!

gregsan wrote:The picture quality is pretty good (in my eyes as well)...but I've been having problems where some of the motion seems "jerky" when encoding to Divx. I've been playing with the settings to see if I can correct this since the fairly motionless scenes are pretty sharp. Hopefully I'll work out the kinks.

What program are you using to encode to Divx?

I've been using TMPGENC Plus to encode Trick3 to MPEG2 and there's a myriad of settings (too many, maybe) that lets you control encoding. One of them lets you choose the precision for motion so you can reduce/eliminate the jerkiness during motion scenes... :)

bmwracer wrote:
What program are you using to encode to Divx?

I've been using TMPGENC Plus to encode Trick3 to MPEG2 and there's a myriad of settings (too many, maybe) that lets you control encoding. One of them lets you choose the precision for motion so you can reduce/eliminate the jerkiness during motion scenes... :)

Virtualdub with the Divx 5.2.1 codec. I slid the motion bar halfawy between the middle and the left and it's still kind of jerky (although maybe ghosting is a better word). I did a goodle search and ti mentions something about too much noise reduction might cause this. I'm going to tinker with that setting to see if it makes a difference. I also upped the bitrate (but haven't yet checked my output yet - needed to go to work).

gregsan wrote:Virtualdub with the Divx 5.2.1 codec. I slid the motion bar halfawy between the middle and the left and it's still kind of jerky (although maybe ghosting is a better word). I did a goodle search and ti mentions something about too much noise reduction might cause this. I'm going to tinker with that setting to see if it makes a difference. I also upped the bitrate (but haven't yet checked my output yet - needed to go to work).

Upping the bitrate should help, but your file size'll get bigger...

Haven't used Virtualdub all that much, so I'm unfamiliar with the settings... You probably already know this, but check http://www.videohelp.com and their forums... :)

Good luck!

KTSF Programming note:

Last Sunday's (September 12) programming, "Proof of the Man" et. al. will be shown late night, AFTER this Saturday's (the 18th)normal programming.

After complaining to KTSF about the cancellation of last week's shows I got this note in the mail today:

"Due the pre-emption on last Sunday, Tokyo TV has brought forward their
Sunday programs to Saturday night from 11:30pm (right after Fuji TV's
program) to 2:00am in the morning. "

The rest of the note went on to explain how it was all TTV's fault. Nothing to do with KTSF. And they are quite sure that TTV must have given ample warning, and I must have just missed it. Shame on me.

Love those folks.

Anyway... to repeat:

Last Sunday's programming will be aired late night this Saturday, beginning at 11:30.

bmwracer wrote:
Upping the bitrate should help, but your file size'll get bigger...

Haven't used Virtualdub all that much, so I'm unfamiliar with the settings... You probably already know this, but check http://www.videohelp.com and their forums... :)

Good luck!

OK. Thanks. I'll check them out.

what are the dramas showing on saturday nowadays anyways?
and how about sunday before hey!x3?
sorry, I have work late night so I don't get to watch them no more(since MLC)

Impression15 wrote:what are the dramas showing on saturday nowadays anyways?
and how about sunday before hey!x3?
sorry, I have work late night so I don't get to watch them no more(since MLC)

They are showing Kougen e irashai (now on episode 8) at 8:00 followed by Sakura (I think it will be finished in about 4 weeks), and Shinsengumi (which I love) and it is about 50% into it's story I think on Saturday. These all have English Subs. Sunday I am not sure what is playing.

aww, thats cool. we dont get eng subbed jdramas on tv here

gregsan wrote:

Virtualdub with the Divx 5.2.1 codec. I slid the motion bar halfawy between the middle and the left and it's still kind of jerky (although maybe ghosting is a better word). I did a goodle search and ti mentions something about too much noise reduction might cause this. I'm going to tinker with that setting to see if it makes a difference. I also upped the bitrate (but haven't yet checked my output yet - needed to go to work).

Jerky playback as in the motion skips or something? Just an example but if you watch JTV's Orange Days, I see that jerky playback where the video isn't smooth. Is that what you're talking about? Some people said it's just my codecs but with the encodes I do I never get that jerky playback. I also don't use Divx though. Try using xvid as I believe that's more stable.

@bmw: Yup I get the standard SP, LP, and SLP. I also get XP which is supposed to be really high quality but I haven't tried using that before. Usually it's 1 hour of recording for XP, 2 for SP, 4 for EP, and 8 for SLP.

eltinator wrote:@bmw: Yup I get the standard SP, LP, and SLP. I also get XP which is supposed to be really high quality but I haven't tried using that before. Usually it's 1 hour of recording for XP, 2 for SP, 4 for EP, and 8 for SLP.

I record in XP exclusively with my Panasonic DVD recorder.

For programs over one hour, I use the split option to break the program up into 1-hour chunks, usually in the middle of a commercial to be safe. I them burn the chunks to DVD-RAM (writes the content to VRO files, which is actually a MPEG-2 file), then use my Pioneer DVD drive to copy the VRO file to my HD (yes, the Pioneer unit actually reads DVD-RAM, even though they don't mention this disc format in the documentation).

With the VRO file on the HD, I use TMPGEnc Plus to demux the M2V and AC3 parts (the audio is in AC3 format). The reason I demux at this point is that Womble MPEG-VCR (the editor I use) sucks at working with AC3 audio. If I edit the M2V/AC3 file with Womble, the audio and video are totally out-of-sync. However, I like Womble because it uses little memory, and it's DAMN FAST!!!!!!! Plus, it doesn't re-RIP the file like a lot of other editors (Pinnacle, InterVideo, etc.)

Next, I convert the AC3 to WAV using Ciler's AC3 tool. I process the WAV file using Adobe Audition 1.5, cleaning up all hisses and crackles in the audio, and also center the audio wave* and adjust the volume. Then, I use HeadAC3he to convert the WAV to MPEG-2. And finally, I mux the M2V and MP2 files together using TMPGEnc Plus. With the muxed MPEG-2 file, I use Womble to take out all the commericals. And then with the edited MPEG-2 file, I either burn the cleaned file to DVD-ISO for archiving, or push it through some other RIP for transmission (DivX, SVCD, etc.)

* - On some capture cards, including the ATI All-in-Wonder series, the audio is off-centered along the horizontal axis. If you attempt to clean audio in this condition, the cleaning won't be as clean as it could be if the audio was properly centered. Also, when you attempt to extract a sampling of a portion containing the hissing noise, using that sample may actually loose some of the audio you want to keep. When working with my Panasonic DVD recorder, I've noticed that the audio is properly centered, so I don't have to deal with this problem.

--- groink

eltinator wrote:@bmw: Yup I get the standard SP, LP, and SLP. I also get XP which is supposed to be really high quality but I haven't tried using that before. Usually it's 1 hour of recording for XP, 2 for SP, 4 for EP, and 8 for SLP.

Hmm, that's pretty good... What brand is it?

I saw a similar DVR from Daewoo that has a built-in tuner and uses DVDRWs at Target for $200...

bmwracer wrote:
Hmm, that's pretty good... What brand is it?

I saw a similar DVR from Daewoo that has a built-in tuner and uses DVDRWs at Target for $200...

Mine is a Panasonic. Model number: DMR-E55 (Trust me I don't memorize that. I just wanted to walk over to the TV since I just finished eatting lunch :hehe: )

Anyways, this was about $350 on sale at the time I purchased it. I bet they're even cheaper now but if you really want a cool DVD-recorder, then get one with a built in HD :D

eltinator wrote:
Jerky playback as in the motion skips or something? Just an example but if you watch JTV's Orange Days, I see that jerky playback where the video isn't smooth. Is that what you're talking about? Some people said it's just my codecs but with the encodes I do I never get that jerky playback. I also don't use Divx though. Try using xvid as I believe that's more stable.

I haven't yet watched the Orange Days from JTV...

From the research I've been doing today online...I think the problem is related to interlacing. I've read some stuff online that implies that virtualdub's filters don't work well with interlaced video and that it's better to de-interlace. I'm going to play with the settings and interlacing filters as well as try Xvid to see if that works better. I'm hoping I reach some sort of "solution" soon, since I've been working on this one episode now for almost 1 week. It's draining all of my computer resources (when I want to use it) doing all of these encodes and re-encodes.

My biggest worry about Xvid however, is that it has playback problems on the $69 Phillips Divx player I have (there's a trick if you go into the menu and then back out it seems to resolve)...but it's a hassle nonetheless.

In a more general sense, people who watch videos on a PC prefer the videos to be de-interlaced ahead of time. Then that way, less stress on your PC.

However, when your target is people who watch videos on TV, it really doesn't matter whether it's interlaced or de-interlaced, or at least the majority of the crowd at DVDRHelp.com have you believing.

On my PC, I barely see the interlacing flaws in videos (P4 1.6Ghz with a $300+ video card), but on others it's very obvious. The software you use to view the videos should make the necessary adjustments, and quite possibly the software I use (InterVideo WinDVD 6.0) does it well.

After reading up on all of this stuff and experimenting for the last several months, I've come to some simple conclusions:

1) The slower your PC (includes CPU, video card, operating system, codecs, etc.), the slow the video, therefore the more obvious the imperfections of interlaced video becomes.

2) The software player of choice makes a difference.

3) The video codec and the parameters used to rip the video is the make/break of the video. Good rips helps the player/codecs perform better -- bad rips gives the player/codecs more work to do, therefore overall performance decreases.

I've spoken to MMXZ on a couple of ocassions via IRC (he rips the Orange Days series for JTV, and now for SARS), and he quite confident that the process he has in place is as good as it gets. And I have to admit that the latest episode released by SARS looks really good when played on my combination of hardware and software.

--- groink

groink wrote:In a more general sense, people who watch videos on a PC prefer the videos to be de-interlaced ahead of time. Then that way, less stress on your PC.

However, when your target is people who watch videos on TV, it really doesn't matter whether it's interlaced or de-interlaced, or at least the majority of the crowd at DVDRHelp.com have you believing.

On my PC, I barely see the interlacing flaws in videos (P4 1.6Ghz with a $300+ video card), but on others it's very obvious. The software you use to view the videos should make the necessary adjustments, and quite possibly the software I use (InterVideo WinDVD 6.0) does it well.

After reading up on all of this stuff and experimenting for the last several months, I've come to some simple conclusions:

1) The slower your PC (includes CPU, video card, operating system, codecs, etc.), the slow the video, therefore the more obvious the imperfections of interlaced video becomes.

2) The software player of choice makes a difference.

3) The video codec and the parameters used to rip the video is the make/break of the video. Good rips helps the player/codecs perform better -- bad rips gives the player/codecs more work to do, therefore overall performance decreases.

I've spoken to MMXZ on a couple of ocassions via IRC (he rips the Orange Days series for JTV, and now for SARS), and he quite confident that the process he has in place is as good as it gets. And I have to admit that the latest episode released by SARS looks really good when played on my combination of hardware and software.

--- groink

The ghosting problems I was having were VERY obvious when played on my TV (which it shouldn't since TVs normally deal with interlaced images). The problem (it seems) is that when converting the interlaced video to Divx, the interlacing is burned into the encoded image permanently thus the motion looks blurry or ghosted because the 2nd (interlaced frame) is encoded with the new 1st frame during motion sequences and so the moving object looks like it's in 2 places at the same time. I guess it's a problem with Virtualdub (though I'm not sure it's ONLY a problem with Virtualdub) with regards to how it initially handles the interlaced video when it's trying to encode. It seems like there's a lot of heated discussion regarding this among the video forums.

Hopefully the new de-interlacing filter will do the trick (fingers crossed)!