American Football (NFL, College, etc.)

Anticipating the start of another football season and feeling nostalgic about all the football I have witnessed throughout my ever lengthening lifespan, I began ruminating about the best players I have seen. So without further ado, kindly indulge the musings of an old fogie (I suspect only Geezer, who's around my age, might be familiar with all of these names):
Center
College: Dave Rimington Pro: Jim Langer
Guard
College: John Hannah Pro: John Hannah
Tackle
College: Jonathan Ogden Pro: Jonathan Ogden
Tight end
College: Ken MacAfee Pro: Dave Casper
Wide receiver
College: Johnny Rodgers Pro: Jerry Rice
Halfback
College: (Tie) Barry Sanders, Tony Dorsett Pro: Walter Payton
Fullback
College: Earl Campbell Pro: Jim Brown
QB
College: Tommy Frazier (although if Tim Tebow has a great year . . .) Pro: (Tie) Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana
Inside defensive lineman
College: Rich Glover Pro: Randy White
Outside defensive lineman
College: Randy White Pro: (Tie) Deacon Jones, Reggie White
Inside linebacker
College: (Tie) Mike Singletary, Chris Spielman, Jerry Robinson Pro: Dick Butkus
Outside linebacker
College: Hugh Green Pro: Ted Hendricks
Cornerback
College: Charles Woodson Pro: Dick "Night Train" Lane
Safety
College: Kenny Easley Pro: Kenny Easley

Extra: John Elway was the most impressive high school football player I have ever seen.

Never followed college ball all that closely, but as far your pro selections:

Kellen Winslow and/or John Mackey were both better than Casper.

And at halfback you got the right team but the wrong guy. Should be Gale Sayers.

gaijinmark wrote:
Kellen Winslow and/or John Mackey were both better than Casper.

Imo Winslow the Elder was a great receiving TE but a mediocre blocker; Mackey had good hands, was terrific after the catch, and blocked well. But I chose Casper because he was flat-out the best blocking TE I have seen, had great hands, and was superb in the clutch.

gaijinmark wrote:And at halfback you got the right team but the wrong guy. Should be Gale Sayers.

Gale Sayers is my all-time favorite halfback, but I chose Payton because in addition to his longevity, toughness, and running, receiving, and passing skills, he could really block.

All valid points.I guess I'm letting my "Raider Hater" bias get the best of me, and growing up as a BALTIMORE Colts fan (I'm still pissed at the Irsays :beatyou: ) I'm always going to have a soft spot in my heart for the great Colts teams of Unitas, Berry, Moore, Mackey etc.

I'd think it's be really hard to pick the best players/position, especially with rule changes, different eras, training, etc...

And that's true for any sport, I think... :sweat:

gaijinmark wrote:All valid points.I guess I'm letting my "Raider Hater" bias get the best of me, and growing up as a BALTIMORE Colts fan (I'm still pissed at the Irsays :beatyou: ) I'm always going to have a soft spot in my heart for the great Colts teams of Unitas, Berry, Moore, Mackey etc.

As a Baltimore Colts fan, you must love the movie Diner.

The Baltimore Colts of the late 50's thru the mid-60's were a terrific franchise. So many great players; in addition to those you mentioned, there was Gino Marchetti, Jim Parker, Big Daddy Lipscomb, Lenny Lyles, Jimmy Orr, Alan Ameche and, imo, the best back-up QB of all time, Earl Morrall.

Btw, there's a terrific book entitled Johnny U, written by Tom Callahan which relives those halcyon Colts days.

Re: Robert Irsay--the way he conducted the move from Baltimore to Indianapolis was one of the most cowardly and despicable acts ever perpetrated by a team owner.

Re: the Raiders--I was never a Raiders fan, but I did like and appreciate the play of a handful of individual Raider players.

bmwracer wrote:I'd think it's be really hard to pick the best players/position, especially with rule changes, different eras, training, etc...

And that's true for any sport, I think... :sweat:

When I indulge in these whimsical lists, it's all about how good a player was against the competition he faced. Rule changes, training, equipment, how the game was played during different eras, etc. do not (and should not) factor into this at all; at least they don't for me. It's about the degree to which a player was dominant during the time he played that I look at.

That's why comments like the one some dumbass sportswriter made when he said that Jim Brown was overrated because he played against a bunch of slow white guys are so specious. Players can't choose the era and the competition they face. So they should be judged on how well they played against their peers. It's disingenuous and unfair imo to engage in speculative nonsense on if they would be as good in another era.

shin2 wrote:When I indulge in these whimsical lists, it's all about how good a player was against the competition he faced. Rule changes, training, equipment, how the game was played during different eras, etc. do not (and should not) factor into this at all; at least they don't for me. It's about the degree to which a player was dominant during the time he played that I look at.

I gotcha.

It'd be hard for me to come up with such a comprehensive list as yours, particularly in college, but I'll have to mull over it for a while...

shin2 wrote: But I chose Casper because he was flat-out the best blocking TE I have seen, had great hands, and was superb in the clutch.

+1. Dave was the best blocking TE to date. I'm a little biased since I've always been a Raider fan since I was a kid. Representing Raider Nation in J-Land. :mrgreen: Seriously though, "The Ghost" had great hands AND he was an outstanding blocker which puts him at the top. Absolutely class.

Takoyama wrote:

+1. Dave was the best blocking TE to date. I'm a little biased since I've always been a Raider fan since I was a kid. Representing Raider Nation in J-Land. :mrgreen: Seriously though, "The Ghost" had great hands AND he was an outstanding blocker which puts him at the top. Absolutely class.

I think one reason why Casper was such a superb blocker at the TE position was because he played offensive tackle at Notre Dame until his senior year.

Raider Nation :metaldevil: :shocked: :twisted: :sweat:
Having lived in SoCal for many years, I have had firsthand experience with the Raider Nation horde. All those skulls and spikes and armor and face paint (Kabuki-esque?) LOL

shin2 wrote:Raider Nation :metaldevil: :shocked: :twisted: :sweat:
Having lived in SoCal for many years, I have had firsthand experience with the Raider Nation horde. All those skulls and spikes and armor and face paint (Kabuki-esque?) LOL

What I don't get is why SoCal is still clinging to the Raiders: they've been gone for over a decade and the local stations continue to bias their broadcasts and coverage towards them... :shakehead:

Honestly, I'd rather see the bias lean towards Chargers games... :fingerscrossed:

bmwracer wrote:
What I don't get is why SoCal is still clinging to the Raiders: they've been gone for over a decade and the local stations continue to bias their broadcasts and coverage towards them... :shakehead:

Well, the Raiders did play in L.A. for 13 years.

And they were the last official pro football team in L.A. to win a championship (Of course USC--L.A.'s unofficial pro football team--has won some championships since the Raiders' return to Oakland)

Plus Raider gear is very popular among the many many thousands of SoCal gangbangers.

Not to mention the fact that the Raiders have a long-entrenched popularity within the Hispanic community who I think have the highest plurality in SoCal.

Plus the Raiders have always been a great subject for the media to cover, the latest being the allegation that the head coach sucker-punched one of his assistants.

shin2 wrote:Well, the Raiders did play in L.A. for 13 years.

The Rams played in L.A. longer than that and no one's tooting their horn (thankfully).

Plus Raider gear is very popular among the many many thousands of SoCal gangbangers.

Lovely. :sweat:

Not to mention the fact that the Raiders have a long-entrenched popularity within the Hispanic community who I think have the highest plurality in SoCal.

Lovely 2. :sweat: :sweat:

Plus the Raiders have always been a great subject for the media to cover, the latest being the allegation that the head coach sucker-punched one of his assistants.

Ah, I understand it all now: L.A. loves dysfunctional teams. :rolleyes:

Raiders get smashed by the Saints, 45-7. :rofl:

shin2 wrote:Having lived in SoCal for many years, I have had firsthand experience with the Raider Nation horde. All those skulls and spikes and armor and face paint (Kabuki-esque?) LOL

The Raiders are probably still so popular over there because all those SoCal fans just love to get dressed up as Neanderthals. :beaten:

Do people in LA even care about having a pro football team? I figure if they really wanted one, it'd be there now considering the major market. Then again, there is that perception that LA sports fans are pretty blaze about their teams.

shin2

Ah, I love that kind of list. And unlike BMW I had no trouble formulating my own.

I mean, right off the bat I came up with the 6 no doubt about it, no argument, best Offensive Tackles that ever played the game.

And of course, the 22 single best tailbacks that I ever saw play.

The 7 best ever QB that ever played the game was a bit more difficult.

And at Safety? Ronnie Lott.

I can think of at least a dozen Defensive Ends who were the best I ever saw. And...

Okay fine. My list is probably 30 pages long.

adub2adub wrote:The Raiders are probably still so popular over there because all those SoCal fans just love to get dressed up as Neanderthals. :beaten:

Nah, just the Raider fans... I think they love the colors more than the team.

Do people in LA even care about having a pro football team?

I don't.

Ever since Georgia Frontiere packed up the Rams and took 'em to St. Louis, I hated her and the Rams... I could care less if we ever had a team here again.

Then again, there is that perception that LA sports fans are pretty blaze about their teams.

That's "blase." :P

Geezer wrote:shin2

Ah, I love that kind of list. And unlike BMW I had no trouble formulating my own.

I mean, right off the bat I came up with the 6 no doubt about it, no argument, best Offensive Tackles that ever played the game.

And of course, the 22 single best tailbacks that I ever saw play.

The 7 best ever QB that ever played the game was a bit more difficult.

And at Safety? Ronnie Lott.

I can think of at least a dozen Defensive Ends who were the best I ever saw. And...

Okay fine. My list is probably 30 pages long.

Geezer,

The fact that you could remember 30 pages of players is a great thing; at our age, memory is one of the first things to go.

The argument over who was the better safety--Ronnie Lott or Kenny Easley--is an interesting one. As you know, both of them played college ball in L.A. at the exact same time, Lott at USC and Easley at UCLA. Living in the L.A. area, I got to watch the two of them almost every week throughout their collegiate careers. Lott was great for the Trojans, then went on to an outstanding Hall of Fame pro career. Unfortunately, Easley's NFL career was cut short by kidney problems (he ended up having a kidney transplant), playing just six full seasons. Still, just as you have no doubt in your mind that Lott was the best safety you saw, I am absolutely positively 100% certain that Easley was both the best collegiate and pro safety I've seen.

Now, about those 22 single best tailbacks . . . .

adub2adub wrote:
Do people in LA even care about having a pro football team?

L.A. has a pro football team--the USC Trojans. Been that way for many decades now.

Hey beemer, are Raiders games regularly televised in L.A. or do the local Fox and CBS affiliates get to pick the best games offered that week?

shin2 wrote:Hey beemer, are Raiders games regularly televised in L.A. or do the local Fox and CBS affiliates get to pick the best games offered that week?

The bias is typically towards Raider games and Charger games second. :shakehead:

Obviously, the ratings must be driving the Raider broadcasts here in L.A., even though the Raiders have been perennial road apples as of late.

I suppose I could be to blame since if there's no other game to watch, I'll root for the opposing team to beat the Raiders... :mrgreen: