What do you think about Europe ?

Maybe most of you don't care of this, but on May 29th, there will be an important poll in France which concerns the EU constitution.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4464203.stm



For you, what is Europe ?
For now, I think that Europe is nothing except a group of some countries which pretend to have the same culture, religion...
It's true that the Euro (€) has given a new dimension to the word "Europe". But many countries from the EU don't have the Euro, and especially UK....



I think the problems are :

-there are too many countries in Europe (25)
-the gap between the richest countries (Germany, UK, France...) and the poorest (Poland, Lituania, Estonia...) is high.
-The governments of each countries have really opposite point of views : When France says "yes", England says "no". Some countries have their army in Iraq whereas other are against the "war".
- Austria and Italia are governed by fascists presidents...
- Poland is highly influenced by USA...
- Turkey wants to enter Europe whereas they don't have the same religion, not the same culture...


EU was a good thing for countries such as Spain, Portugal, Ireland whose growth and economy have increased. The richest countries (except UK as always) give money to the poorest.
And people hope that it will be the same thing for Poland and all the new members.


So the solution could be the EU constitution. But the EU constitution has to be approved by all the members of the European union. As you can see on the website, the poll indicates that 55% of those who have made up their minds plan to vote No (in France)...
This constitution could also be a good help to face east Asia and USA, but there are so many jerks in France who don't make the difference bteween the EU constitution and France's economic problems that the economy might no be approved....


Of course, I am going to vote yes.




So what do you think about Europe ?
For you, what is Europe ?
What do you think about the EU constitution ?


(as always, sorry for the spelling, the grammar, and my english...) :bow:[/b]

I haven't read the constitution yet, so I'm not really sure what to think of it.

The problem with Turkey is not really the religion or the culture. I mean, you can't say that Germany and Spain have the same culture. The problem with Turkey is mainly that the government there doesn't give a damn about human rights. Religion has no room in politics, so it shouldn't be a reason for anything. Also, there will be a further expansion to the east, so Russia may sooner or later come into the EU as well.

The way I see the EU.. well, I always say "The EU wouldn't be able to agree on the colour of shit". And I think that works well. Why? Well, it's easy. It's called "European Union", and yes, there have been big and important parts, like the Euro, like the free movement without borders inside the EU. But it's not really a "Union". Most countries still stick to their national mentality. You barely hear anyone say "I'm European". Instead they'll say "I'm *insert country here*".

I also have my problems with these multi-national projects they're trying to do in Europe. Or better said, the industry. Take Airbus, or take the nuts who're building the Eurofighter. Agreed, the 380 IS huge, but also butt-ugly and can't even land everywhere. And I won't even comment on the Eurofighter. I mean, things like that didn't work with the Tornado back in the days, yet they still don't learn.

Also I think the EU often lacks balls when it comes to dealing with the USA or anyone else outside of the EU. You barely see a real EU stance on issues, you see a British stance, a German stance... Iraq was the best example.

I actually think, on the long run, Asia will take the lead. China without communism sooner or later, a united and free Korea, then add Japan and India, if those form an "Asian Union" (and I'm sure that one day they will, just give it time)... oi.

ok, from a perspective from a guy who's just (a boat trip, four plane hops, a space shuttle ride and) a step outside of europe. had no idea about that EU thing. fascinating.

to be honest, everyone from there is categorized as 'european', until i can figure out exactly which country they are from. but i'm mature enough to realize that europe is made up of different countries, and unlike the 'states' in usa or 'prefectures' in japan, i know that this will mean differences in many things.

europe sounds like an exotic getaway for people from hawaii. it's not too hard to reach the states, canada, japan, korea, australia, etc. but europe? man, that's like going to another world. we also tend to think of it as one 'place'. "man, i wanna go to europe one day!' you don't hear people too often naming only ONE or TWO countries there that they want to visit. they just wanna go "there".

also, we only know famous cities. i hope to go to paris one day, or see rome. but many of us wouldn't even know which countries they're in.

but for the EU thing, i'll have to read/hear more about it before i can give you my opinion on it....

Interesting ^^
Well, I have a different point of view :)

In my opinion, Turkey and Russia will never enter Europe because Europe need time to "digest" the new members. I mean there are too many "poor" members.

I think things are going to change. In 50 years, I think that people will consider themselves as Europeans and not as from their own country. Of course there will be people who want to be independant like in most of the countries of Europe who consider that they belong to an area and not to a country.

In the past people considered that they belonged to a small village, then to a bigger area, then to a country, then it will be Europe...

I also have my problems with these multi-national projects they're trying to do in Europe. Or better said, the industry. Take Airbus, or take the nuts who're building the Eurofighter. Agreed, the 380 IS huge, but also butt-ugly and can't even land everywhere. And I won't even comment on the Eurofighter. I mean, things like that didn't work with the Tornado back in the days, yet they still don't learn.

I don't know why you say that. I don't think that the A380 is ugly. It is a plane for future to reduce air trafic. Then it can land in any place where the Boeing 747 can land... Some of the biggest american airports are against this plane because they have to build new gates, new buildings for this plane. If they want or no, they'll have to adapt because China already bought many A380. (They bought 10 more todays).
I don't know about Eurofighters, but let's see what's going to happen. If you don't try, you'll never succeed. Be ambitious...


If all the countries work together, the results will be better than if each country work alone. We need all the skills and all the best engineers of each countries to make the most competitive technologies...

Also I think the EU often lacks balls when it comes to dealing with the USA or anyone else outside of the EU. You barely see a real EU stance on issues, you see a British stance, a German stance... Iraq was the best example.

There's no British stance... British stance is american stance. British help american to spy Europe...
Concerning Iraq, I think that this kind of problems won't happen thanks to a European government. Germany, UK , France, Spain ... will have to respect the decision of the european government and there won't be English army in Irak, French army in Ivory coast... Everybody would act together, but for now it's a dream...

@Jholic : I know what you mean ;). Here, when people hear the word "Hawai", they think at sun, waves, surf, holidays... It's a dream to go there, it's another world...
But a lot of people don't know if Hawai is in Pacific ocean or in Atlantic ocean -_-
It's not a good idea to try to read the EU constitution because most of the EU comes from the constitution of each countries. Few things are new. The most important part to read is the last part, when they talk about the European government and Europe...

I liked the "Final Countdown". hahahaha...

Actually, i did want to visit france when i was taking french classes "au lycee". what better way to pick up chicks than in their environment. :metaldevil:
Nowadays, i've forgotten a LOT of french, and replaced it with japanese.

niko2x wrote:
Nowadays, i've forgotten a LOT of french, and replaced it with japanese.

Me too, Boku mo :nut:

I don't feel European at all, I feel French , that's it !
there are "European" countries that have nothing to do with Europe ...

I'm glad Switzerland hasn't joined the EU yet and I hope it never will.

i think it is to accept that such a huge consolidation takes time and a lot of effort..

overall i think EU is a very good idea especially looking at future 10-20 years and the fact that US is the only superpower !! need to have another powerful block present. china is again fully individualistic in its approach.

but they must limit it to a number which is manageable though! ... atleast settle down with all these new members and then start adding new ones.

Swiss: well i dont know for how long it can hold out like this. will be stuck in between all the EU countries like this.

Different people, groups, factions, and nations have been trying to unite Europe since the days of the Roman Empire.

Occasionally they've tried to do it using Religion.

More often, they've tried to do it using swords. Then rifles. Then onto machine guns and bombers, and...

Recently, very recently in terms of history, they've tried using economics, self interest, conversation and debate. I think this could be a winner.

As for how soon it will happen... how long before a Swede or a Spaniard thinks of him or herself as a "European" first... it's gonna take some time.

Did you know that prior to the American Civil War (1861-65) very few Americans thought of themselves, or referred to themselves as "Americans". They were New Yorkers, or Georgians, or Virginians, or New Englanders.

The country was called, These (plural) United States, until the late 19th century, when it became The (singluar) United States.

And the countires in Europe have a darned sight more history and individual differences to overcome than did the American's of the 19th century.

It's gonna take more than a decade or two, and a few signed documents to really unite Europe. But in the end, I think saying it will be well worth the struggle is a major understatement.

I can't say I have any idea what a united Europe will look like in a century or so... but it has to be better off than it's been over the last few centuries with all the internal bickering, power grabs, and wars.

Europe has too much to offer the world to go on blowing itself to pieces every generation or so.

Geezer wrote:
Did you know that prior to the American Civil War (1861-65) very few Americans thought of themselves, or referred to themselves as "Americans". They were New Yorkers, or Georgians, or Virginians, or New Englanders.

The country was called, These (plural) United States, until the late 19th century, when it became The (singluar) United States.

Very interesting, Geez!

Ive always noticed that when reading the old documents.

A thoughtful and appropriate subject to be reaired today, I felt. :)

It is a miraculous place we live in, that all of us from so many lands and for so many miles are all Americans!!

Happy Fourth, minna-san! [/b]

z123_us wrote:yeah is sad for paris, having been here i have seen how much these guys tried to get it, buses, buildings, sports events.. i was almost sure paris wld get it. is a surprize for sure.

and what u said of not getting 2016 is also true maybe!

well i guess london would be great too although i dont like the metro. :)

Hi z123_us,

This Olympic discussion now has its own thread. The Mod moved it as per dochira's request. See you there..... :)

Enna wrote:

Hi z123_us,

This Olympic discussion now has its own thread. The Mod moved it as per dochira's request. See you there..... :)

:beaten: yeah ..sorry .. actually this one was before that one .. so ended up posting here before :bonk: , then saw the shifted one :bonk:

tks man :)

z123_us wrote:

:beaten: yeah ..sorry .. actually this one was before that one .. so ended up posting here before :bonk: , then saw the shifted one :bonk:

tks man :)

You are welcome z123_us but I am most definitely NOT a man. Unless of course you were using it in the slang sense, then I am still not a man. :shakehead: ;) :nut: :D :bonk:

Enna wrote:

You are welcome z123_us but I am most definitely NOT a man. Unless of course you were using it in the slang sense, then I am still not a man. :shakehead: ;) :nut: :D :bonk:

:bonk: :bonk: :bonk:

welllll slang or not ... was my fault .. now i have been enlightened by the lady :hehe:

gomen! :beaten:

z123_us wrote:

:bonk: :bonk: :bonk:

welllll slang or not ... was my fault .. now i have been enlightened by the lady :hehe:

gomen! :beaten:

Ohh its cool z123_us. I had to laugh because when I first joined this board I thought that dochira and bmwracer were both women because they were both so kind and caring to me. :say_thanx: :D Hmmm now if you mistook me for a man...what does that say about me???? :sweat: :bonk: :D

Enna wrote:I thought that dochira and bmwracer were both women because they were both so kind and caring to me.

That sounds like a reverse male chauvanism remark... :grumble:

:hehe:

Enna wrote:

Ohh its cool z123_us. I had to laugh because when I first joined this board I thought that dochira and bmwracer were both women because they were both so kind and caring to me. :say_thanx: :D Hmmm now if you mistook me for a man...what does that say about me???? :sweat: :bonk: :D

bmwracer wrote:That sounds like a reverse male chauvanism remark...

Say What????? :bonk: :sweat: :confused:

That means it was a compliment to you and dochira and I insulted my own dam* self! HA! :hehe: :rofl: :D

Enna wrote:

Ohh its cool z123_us. I had to laugh because when I first joined this board I thought that dochira and bmwracer were both women because they were both so kind and caring to me. :say_thanx: :D Hmmm now if you mistook me for a man...what does that say about me???? :sweat: :bonk: :D

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

bmw and doch ..women ....... DOCH of all a women ... :lol: u should see the posts in the "have somethiing to say thread !" ... 'enlightenment'

:beatyou: Doch is gonna kill me !!

hmmm welll as for mistaking u .... well u know guys can also be good sometimes .. so nothing wrong in mistakin u to be one. :thumbsup:

z123_us wrote:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

bmw and doch ..women ....... DOCH of all a women ... :lol: u should see the posts in the "have somethiing to say thread !" ... 'enlightenment'

:beatyou: Doch is gonna kill me !!

hmmm welll as for mistaking u .... well u know guys can also be good sometimes .. so nothing wrong in mistakin u to be one. :thumbsup:

Ooooh Thanks for the heads-up on bmw and doch, z123! Now lemme go find that "have something to say thread" ;) :say_thanx:

Yeah I see your point z123 there is nothing wrong in being mistaken for a guy. Kinda cool now that I think about it! :thumbsup: