Other way of expressing "‚±‚Æ‚ª‚ ‚é" [koto ga aru]

recently i've come across some expression/construction alot, which seems to be interchangable with the expression ‚±‚Æ‚ª‚ ‚é.

like: “ú–{‚ɍs‚Á‚½‚±‚Æ‚ª‚ ‚éH

I've only found it in speech yet so i don't know the exact use of it yet, but I think it's something like this:

“ú–{‚ɍs‚­‚æ‚Á‚½?

or maybe it was with ‚â‚Á‚½ but I don't think so :|

So it would also mean "have you ever been to Japan?", at least that's what I understood from the explanations. So, how exactly do you use this thingy?

Well, today I asked my Japanese teacher, since nobody was able to help me out. Here's the result:

The construction is:
"˜A—pŒ`{‚æ‚é" (renyoukei + yoru)

—á (example)F
s‚«‚æ‚Á‚½H@(iki yotta?)

Though I heard this sentence in contexts where you'd expect "`Ž–‚ª‚ ‚é", it doesn't mean the same. It would mean the same thing as the "`‚Ä‚µ‚Ü‚¤ / `‚¿‚Ⴄ)" (-te shimau or -chau) construction, being a dialect variant of it.

He also added that sometimes it is pronounced differently (I'm not sure wether this was "youth language" / slang or dialect), ‚æ‚é would change into ‚悤. So one would say s‚«‚悤, but since I didn't go into it deeply I actually don't know wether the meaning is still the same or how it relates to a similar expression like s‚±‚¤. My teacher did say though that both the "let's do something" (`‚¤) construction and ˜A—pŒ`{‚悤 can sometimes be the same like: H‚ׂ悤. But don't ask me the details cause I don't know them :).

"s‚«‚æ‚Á‚½HH"@you learn japanese dialect??
im japanese but i dont understand that.. haha maybe it's the same to say "@s‚Á‚½H"

we often use "`‚±‚Æ‚ª‚ ‚é" ( `‚±‚Æ‚ª‚È‚¢j

* Have you ever been abroad? --> ŠO‘‚ɍs‚Á‚½‚±‚Æ‚ª‚ ‚éH

* I've never been abroad. ---> ŠO‘‚ɍs‚Á‚½‚±‚Æ‚ª‚È‚¢B

kawaii76 wrote:"s‚«‚æ‚Á‚½HH"@you learn japanese dialect??
im japanese but i dont understand that.. haha maybe it's the same to say "@s‚Á‚½H"

we often use "`‚±‚Æ‚ª‚ ‚é" ( `‚±‚Æ‚ª‚È‚¢j

* Have you ever been abroad? --> ŠO‘‚ɍs‚Á‚½‚±‚Æ‚ª‚ ‚éH

* I've never been abroad. ---> ŠO‘‚ɍs‚Á‚½‚±‚Æ‚ª‚È‚¢B

I guess the meaning is not so much different from "plain" s‚Á‚½ :)
To be honest I don't *learn* this at my university (it's not in my books or something)... but I heard a few Japanese people say it so I asked my teacher what it ment. He's from Osaka and he knew it, so maybe it's only in that area and not used around tokyo.

supermidget wrote:

I guess the meaning is not so much different from "plain" s‚Á‚½ :)
To be honest I don't *learn* this at my university (it's not in my books or something)... but I heard a few Japanese people say it so I asked my teacher what it ment. He's from Osaka and he knew it, so maybe it's only in that area and not used around tokyo.

ah right.. He's from Osaka.. their japanese is really funny haha

supermidget wrote:

I guess the meaning is not so much different from "plain" s‚Á‚½ :)
To be honest I don't *learn* this at my university (it's not in my books or something)... but I heard a few Japanese people say it so I asked my teacher what it ment. He's from Osaka and he knew it, so maybe it's only in that area and not used around tokyo.

Yeah, the V + ‚æ‚é construction is one that is used in western Japan (not only Osaka). In fact, my friend from Hiroshima uses it way more than my Osaka friends.
As per my understanding of it, it's used the same way as the V‚Ä + ‚¢‚é construction.

Eg:

‰½‚â‚Á‚Ä‚¢‚é‚́H @‰½‚â‚è‚æ‚éH

‚Ç‚±‚ɍs‚Á‚Ä‚¢‚½H@@‚Ç‚±‚ɍs‚«‚æ‚Á‚½H

etc.

My Hiroshima friend also sticks an ‚ñ at the end too, which is also very western Japanese.

HTH,

‘‰¤š