ruroshin wrote:You keep saying Autumn Fairy Tale is not popular but since you're a regular at soompi I will direct to you those hardcore kdrama guys with the list of top dramas in 2000:
http://www.soompi.com/dramas/2000.php
Scroll down to the bottom and you will see Autumn Fairy Tale came in at #2 so how can you say its not popular?
All About Eve came in at #1 and that show while had a more interesting plot line, still shows a lot of the usual traits listed before.
Also, from my list All In was aired last year and had one of the highest rating of 2003. Summer Scent was also on my list and on yours as well.
The ratings on soompi that were shown are a combination of soompi replies and of Korean viewership ratings. I think there was a poll before but most of the people who frequent soompi aren't actually Korean. Furthermore, the basis on which I judge popularity is how things are rated when the series ENDs. In Korea, there is a prize called the 'dae sahng' which literally means 'great award' which is the equivalent of an oscar - only it's awarded to a TV series/actor/actress/PD/etc. After Autumn Fairy Tale ended, most of the reviews of the series as a whole were rather scathing. It was commended for being 'a first of it's kind in melodramas' but it was controversial because on a fundamental level, the story amounted to 2 people selfishly going against the wishes of both families and disregarding the objections of their parents - again, this keys in with the Korean culture of obedience and humility before the family.
Also, yes, All In was a tremendous hit and DID win the dae sahng for 2003 - for best drama, best actor, and best PD. In my post, I stated that out of your list, All In was one of the few that was a BIG hit.
Also, if you read my first post carefully, you'll see that the dramas I listed were not ALL big hits - the ones that were, were listed at the bottom - albeit, none of them were very unpopular but the ones I listed at the bottom were very critically acclaimed and even after the series finale, exalted much more. Summer Scent NEVER took a top spot in the ratings. The highest it ever got was to a 4th spot - and that was on rare occasions. What I was listing was a few examples of DIFFERENT drama varieties.
Well to be fair I didn't say or imply it was "guy meets girl, guy falls in love, girl dies, guy mopes, guy meets new girl, guy is happy again" I implied that it showed some of the typical traits I mentioned earlier e.g. Disapproving Parent about marriages and the bitch type character. What I'm saying is they are using these plot devices way too much and its becoming tiring.
Err, I don't agree with you (FOR THE PARENTS) in the sense that I don't think those are plot devices at all - those are standard cultural and familial standards. It's kind of like saying that it's too much of a plot device to have someone with an older brother or sister. Or that it's an overused plot device for a married couple to have kids. While it may seem absurd to you, it is a very regular part of Korean social life.
As far as the bitch character - yup, i totally agree with you that it's overused. But I think you're being too specific about it. The idea is that in almost all plots, there is some conflict of some sort and it is generally between people of comflicting views. That much, I'm sure you'd agree with. The overused element comes in when many PDs exaggerate the differences between the people and makes one of them the embodiment of evil and the other the embodiment of good. Yes, I will say that it is used very much - but only in love/melodramas. Furthermore, in Korean society, women are regarded as the fickle and whimsical part of a relationship (i.e. the one's more inclined to be evil - again, Korean patriarchal culture comes up). But as I said, this is only within the melodramas and there are definitely many melodramas that do NOT have this sort of bitch character.
You need to provide proof that what I'm seeing is just what ONE group of people likes. Like I said before I get my kdrama from a number of different sources each from a different type of community so this theory doesn't hold water IMO.
my proof is that as you said, you watch dramas that have been subtitled and whoever does the subtitling is the filter through which you can see your dramas. Even with what's aired on SBS - do you watch everything? I'm sure you don't because that would be more than 6 hours of daily drama watching. Also there are 3 dominant drama channels - MBC being the most acclaimed (i.e. as a general rule, MBC dramas get much higher ratings - i don't know why but MBC is considered THE drama station - SBS tries to compete but it's kinda like Coke and Pepsi - one is just dominant). Furthermore, only since 2 years ago has an online service such as that been available. I guess 'ONE group of people likes' should be replaced with 'Koreans like' as in, you're seeing things through a filter instead of what Koreans see.
When I was watching anime during that period I didn't get that feeling. Why? Because I got my animes from a number of different sources, I got it from the chinatown in my city, I got it online, I got it off friends, I got it through irc I even watched it on cartoon network and so had variety. When I get kdramas from a number of different sources, I got it from chinatown in my city, I got it online, I got it off friends, I got it through irc and I even watch it on SBS channel, I did not get much variety. Why? If theres not much variety then generalisation about kdrama I think are valid.
uh... there are very few kdrama groups around and the j/hk/cdrama subbing groups that take on kdramas hardly take representative dramas.
Again, as I said where are all these big hits. I know Da Mo has a project going and I'm eagerly awaiting that. You also listed Summer Scent in your big hit and I've addressed that and I have asserted that Autumn Fairy Tale and All In are not such duds that they should be discounted as a norm for kdramas.
I think I addressed this above.
I would still like to know the reason for why such big hits as they are, are not more available outside of Korea? Korean Movies are readily available on DVD with english subtitles, why not dramas? Whats the reason here?
quite simply, there isn't a market. It takes a lot of time and energy and of course, money, for a broadcasting station to subtitle something. They also have no international branches which would make marketing extremely difficult without third party assistance (which is actually what YesAsia is trying to become now). A movie on the other hand, is just a one time deal that HAS been shown to be popular. Sales for drama series themselves within Korea are much lower than sales of TV series in Korea. 80% of dramas will never make it to DVD - these days things are changing but up until last year, almost no series made it to DVD except daesahng winners/nominees. Again, i don't work for the broadcast stations but i don't think it's a stretch to think that to them, they don't care about world viewers - too much energy and resources would be spent on a very low profit margin. Furthermore, japanese dramas are usually also not translated and how is it that anime is? Because US companies buy the rights - it's not the J-production companies themselves doing the subbing/distribution.
My vietnamese community do not like jdrama and so they do not translate any jdramas at ALL. So in fact it is harder for me to find jdramas then kdramas but I have no problems finding varied themes in jdramas than I do in kdramas.
But because you are not forced to see through that one field of view or preference, you can get from a much more diverse group. Once you start watching kdramas that are from one source, you get used to that source and form opinions of it. Then you find another source, but this source too is subtitled and again limited. You finally go to SBS itself to watch but in those too, you don't have the time or the resources (or even the knowledge of the language) to find the dramas you're looking for. ANYTHING on japanese tv is relatively easy to obtain. I myself have direct contact with some people who capture everything from just commercials to dramas, to anime, to news, etc. Korean TV isn't like that - I'm sure it could be but the few groups that DO capture (jiniabba, Arirang, and there's like 3 more) only capture prime time dramas and clips/commercials that have to do with that. I CAN NOT explain why this is so - only that it is. Almost all anime aired in Japan also gets aired in Korea with Korean dubbing - yet, to find captures of these is immensely difficult. Some Japanese broadcast companies have bought the rights to certain Kdramas and will hopefully be airing them soon and I'm sure it'll be easier to obtain those. Why? I don't know. But my not knowing doesn't indicate that something is or isn't.
The last thing I'll say is that the list I made for you were either relatively popular or big hits and if you ask, I will list more (so you can either look for the dramas yourself or what not). But they all represent different categories of dramas. Take for instance now. What is the current top drama in Korea right now - and has been for almost every week except for a few weeks when Stairway to Heaven barely beat it out? Dae Jang-Geum. Have you even heard of it? Do you know what it's about? I doubt it. Why? because the people you hear and watch this kdramas from are people who have a particular set of interests and preferences. Even on soompi, the thread for that drama is tiny compared to summer scent which never had the extreme popularity dae jang-geum does. What about da mo? that drama you REALLY need subtitles for because the beauty of it comes in the poetic dialogue - it's really hard to tell what's going on without knowing the language. Almost all of the dramas that have been in the top spot are not melodramas. Stairway to Heaven was, yes. All In wasn't considered melodramatic though I conceded that it did have some melodramatic elements and that was huge. But for the most part, melodramas don't reign supreme in Korea - they're popular but not the most watched. To give another example would be to point out that #4 on that soompi list (Hu Joon) set a record for highest viewership ratings in Korea for a drama (since then, maybe the record was broken but I remember it being a huge event on the news because they should traffic records of cars being all busy and then during the hour that Hu Joon aired, the streets were dead).
On a side note, Dae Jang-Geum is a true story about a girl who's mom was murdered (shot with an arrow) and who was destined to be the top royal court cook but a conspiracy within the government framed her for the attempted murder of the King... blah blah blah... and ultimately she ends up becoming the only female royal court doctor in the history of Korea. There's no one evil bitch (well, there are many evil people) but that's because of the whole conspiracy to gain control of the countries resources/etc which is different from the evil bitch concept.
take care yo,
~zola
Oh yah, #kdrama released "A Good Person" - a drama that was popular (though not a big hit) in Korea that also doesn't have an evil bitch, doesn't have parental disapproval, isn't a tear jerker, the people who die in there are all murdered (one is run over - but it's an act of murder - NOT a car accident - there is a big difference between a traffic accident and someone jumping in a car and trying to run over someone shooting at him) (the other guy is stabbed) (the last guy is thrown off the top of a building). I really loved this drama ^_^
![[image]](http://myhome.hanafos.com/~whdwo84/2222.gif){kind=link}
![[image]](http://myhome.hanafos.com/~ljs5322/image/balli20-4.jpg){kind=link}
![[image]](http://myhome.hanafos.com/~ljs5322/image/balli20-5.jpg){kind=link}
![[image]](http://myhome.hanafos.com/~ljs5322/image/balli20-6.jpg){kind=link}