I think it's a great idea in terms of efficiency for Gateway, but not necessarily so for the end user. Unfortunately these days to cut costs and remain competitive, some services have to be cut. The Gateway stores were never all that productive...
Computers and Related Hardware/Software
Started by groink · 6 Oct 2003 · 5,867 replies
General Discussion
Taken from Anandtech:
Don't get too excited (or disappointed) anytime soon. DVD DL is ready, but it isn't here yet. Sony believes we will have the first drives ready before July, but the larger issue of media might give DVD DL a difficult jump out of the gate. It has been six months after the first 8X DVD+R drives debuted, and we are still having problems finding reliable media. From what we have heard from DVD media and recorder manufacturers, DL media can be extremely low yield and picky. Even worse, according to manufacturers when media shows up, $5 to $8 per disc could be the norm!
Hold your horses on dual layer burners. Incompatible and media issues, ouch! If you look at the DL media, WAY too pricey! If money is not an issue, go for it, hehe. Just wait for a year or so. The issues will be solved as the technology matures by then. In the meantime, happy burning on single layer burners :P
Don't get too excited (or disappointed) anytime soon. DVD DL is ready, but it isn't here yet. Sony believes we will have the first drives ready before July, but the larger issue of media might give DVD DL a difficult jump out of the gate. It has been six months after the first 8X DVD+R drives debuted, and we are still having problems finding reliable media. From what we have heard from DVD media and recorder manufacturers, DL media can be extremely low yield and picky. Even worse, according to manufacturers when media shows up, $5 to $8 per disc could be the norm!
Hold your horses on dual layer burners. Incompatible and media issues, ouch! If you look at the DL media, WAY too pricey! If money is not an issue, go for it, hehe. Just wait for a year or so. The issues will be solved as the technology matures by then. In the meantime, happy burning on single layer burners :P
neonkinpatsu, don't get a compaq/hp. even though you hate dell, at least you won't have to get dells servieced as much. i have 4 machines at work: 1 compaq and 3 dells. Dells never give me problems. the compaq i have (and majority people at work) ALWAYS have to be serviced.
As far as your gateways, too bad they had to close out the retail stores. they closed out the local ones here in DC last yr. I know this don't help ya much, just my 2 yens worth.
As far as your gateways, too bad they had to close out the retail stores. they closed out the local ones here in DC last yr. I know this don't help ya much, just my 2 yens worth.
niko2x wrote:neonkinpatsu, don't get a compaq/hp. even though you hate dell, at least you won't have to get dells servieced as much. i have 4 machines at work: 1 compaq and 3 dells. Dells never give me problems. the compaq i have (and majority people at work) ALWAYS have to be serviced.
As far as your gateways, too bad they had to close out the retail stores. they closed out the local ones here in DC last yr. I know this don't help ya much, just my 2 yens worth.
Oh no, I said anything BUT a Compaq. I've had their products and know 3 people with Presarios (my sister had one too), and they SUCKED. I wouldn't risk it. I actually like eMachines and that was my Gateway backup....until now. I have to wait and see how it pans out. If they work out something for service that doesn't involve shipping then I would buy again. If not....off to Best Buy I go. ;)
Pemu wrote:Taken from Anandtech:
Don't get too excited (or disappointed) anytime soon. DVD DL is ready, but it isn't here yet. Sony believes we will have the first drives ready before July, but the larger issue of media might give DVD DL a difficult jump out of the gate. It has been six months after the first 8X DVD+R drives debuted, and we are still having problems finding reliable media. From what we have heard from DVD media and recorder manufacturers, DL media can be extremely low yield and picky. Even worse, according to manufacturers when media shows up, $5 to $8 per disc could be the norm!
Hold your horses on dual layer burners. Incompatible and media issues, ouch! If you look at the DL media, WAY too pricey! If money is not an issue, go for it, hehe. Just wait for a year or so. The issues will be solved as the technology matures by then. In the meantime, happy burning on single layer burners :P
Very good counterpoint, Pemu. If you do get a successful burn on that dual-layer burner, who knows if it'll play on a regular DVD player...
Still, with the rapid evolution and development of the hardware, these burners will show up at retail stores pretty quickly, low burn yields or not, IMO... :)
KouSeiya315 wrote:Oh no, I said anything BUT a Compaq. I've had their products and know 3 people with Presarios (my sister had one too), and they SUCKED. I wouldn't risk it. I actually like eMachines and that was my Gateway backup....until now. I have to wait and see how it pans out. If they work out something for service that doesn't involve shipping then I would buy again. If not....off to Best Buy I go. ;)
Time to think about building your own PC from ground up, KouSeiya... :D
Build your own computer!
i did. it's easy.
i did. it's easy.
sid wrote:Build your own computer!
i did. it's easy.
And educational! :D
Oh GAWD. I'm too stupid to build my own computer :mecry: And probably too lazy too, hehehe. I installed a CD-RW and a RAM stick. That's probably my limit :beaten: I don't touch motherboards or any of that $hit.
KouSeiya315 wrote:Oh GAWD. I'm too stupid to build my own computer :mecry: And probably too lazy too, hehehe. I installed a CD-RW and a RAM stick. That's probably my limit :beaten: I don't touch motherboards or any of that $hit.i'm sure you have buddies to hook you up, right? ;) altho it it educational, i'm speaking on kouchan's behalf. If it's is more cost effective (read: cheaper) that yes, that is a way to go, but it seems that built machines are so much cheaper than one you build yourself. agree/disagree?
niko2x wrote:i'm sure you have buddies to hook you up, right? ;) altho it it educational, i'm speaking on kouchan's behalf. If it's is more cost effective (read: cheaper) that yes, that is a way to go, but it seems that built machines are so much cheaper than one you build yourself. agree/disagree?
I think it depends on what you are adding. But from scratch, I kinda think it would be expensive. And if something messes up, who do I call? Myself? LOL. I kinda like buying prebuilt ones for warranties and technical support (although they ALL suck sometimes it helps). That way if anything breaks I have someone to blame...er, someone to take care of it for free.
For my next comp I would be buying everything BUT the monitor. My current monitor is brand new, was a little expensive, and it's damn sweet so I wanna keep it and still use it for a long time. My sister did that, and she saved quite a bit of money. She got an eMachines, 512MB RAM, 48x CD-RW, DVD-ROM, Athlon, 100GB hard drive, keyboard, speakers, mouse, etc. Everything but the monitor for $500. It's really good too. Many may snub those specs now but that was bought a year and a half ago at that price. I thought it was damn good and that computer is pretty sweet. :beaten:
niko2x wrote:i'm sure you have buddies to hook you up, right? ;) altho it it educational, i'm speaking on kouchan's behalf. If it's is more cost effective (read: cheaper) that yes, that is a way to go, but it seems that built machines are so much cheaper than one you build yourself. agree/disagree?
I was always of the mind that building your own lets you pick and choose the best components for your system, whereas a pre-built contains the cheapest components needed to get the job done... And upgrading a pre-built machine (drives, cards, etc.) is sometimes more difficult, if not impossible...
bmwracer wrote:
I was always of the mind that building your own lets you pick and choose the best components for your system, whereas a pre-built contains the cheapest components needed to get the job done... And upgrading a pre-built machine (drives, cards, etc.) is sometimes more difficult, if not impossible...
Exactly. People who usually build their own computers go with parts that are more reliable and more highly rated than the more generic parts that companies can mass produce for the lowest common denominator.
I mean, if you really wanted, you could buy the cheapest parts and have a cheaper computer than you could pre-built.
I see where this thread is going... Let me offer the following lecture from a guy who's been there....
You all know by now that I not only can build my own PC, I can also repair them just as easy. So I find myself building my own PCs because I'm confident that if there's a problem with it, whether it's software or hardware-related, I can fix it.
The problem with regular Joe User (or Josephine User in this case) is that a custom-built ACME PC (I call non-brand PCs ACME PCs because it's something Wylee Coyote would buy to capture the Road Runner) is sort of like building a car built from parts out of a junk yard. What I mean by this analogy is that an ACME PC, to me, is very un-end-user friendly in regards to service. Service is VERY important to the non-techie end-user.
If you have a friend build you a fabulous PC from Radio Shack parts, it may be all fine and dandy... Until there's something wrong with it. Could be a software issue... or, it could be a hardware issue.... who's to know off the bat, right?
What I'm getting at here is that I consider home-built PCs UNRELIABLE. It's not a matter of how solid the ACME PC is built. What's unreliable is the guy who built it for you!!!! Yes, your friend! Your buddy! Your cousin! It could even be your sister's aunt's grandmother's brother who knows this guy who builds PCs while being shacked up under house arrest. It doesn't matter who the person is -- what matters is that the builder has absolutely nothing to gain from helping you with your computer problems. None!
In KouSeiya's case, I would stress VERY HIGHLY to buy a PC from a reputable nationally-named PC company. My most important factor when buying a PC is accountability. To define, accountability is when you own a product, and the company's there when you need support. Gateway, for example, has a very high level of accountability for their products. Dell has the same, as well as Compaq, Hewlett-Pacard, Apple Computer, or just about any major brand. If the company does not help the customer with a computer problem, eventually the customer can do various things, such as report the company to the Better Business Bureau, or spread bad reviews through word-of-mouth or on the Internet. In otherwords, the company's reputation is at stake. That's accountability!
The reason why accountability is very important for KouSeiya is that she'll benefit from these two major factors:
1) The company will back her up in terms of offering technical support and computer repair when needed, as long as the PC is under warranty.
2) She does not have to worry about any other factor that does not have a level of accountability (her friend, cousin, etc.)
I'd even avoid the smaller mom-n-pop computer shops. Mom or pop may not be there for you a few months from now. What of they go out of business? What if they're not technically inclined to solve your problems?
In my professional opinion, KouSeiya should stick with her original plan and buy a major-brand PC with a full hardware warranty and locally-based repair service.
--- groink
You all know by now that I not only can build my own PC, I can also repair them just as easy. So I find myself building my own PCs because I'm confident that if there's a problem with it, whether it's software or hardware-related, I can fix it.
The problem with regular Joe User (or Josephine User in this case) is that a custom-built ACME PC (I call non-brand PCs ACME PCs because it's something Wylee Coyote would buy to capture the Road Runner) is sort of like building a car built from parts out of a junk yard. What I mean by this analogy is that an ACME PC, to me, is very un-end-user friendly in regards to service. Service is VERY important to the non-techie end-user.
If you have a friend build you a fabulous PC from Radio Shack parts, it may be all fine and dandy... Until there's something wrong with it. Could be a software issue... or, it could be a hardware issue.... who's to know off the bat, right?
What I'm getting at here is that I consider home-built PCs UNRELIABLE. It's not a matter of how solid the ACME PC is built. What's unreliable is the guy who built it for you!!!! Yes, your friend! Your buddy! Your cousin! It could even be your sister's aunt's grandmother's brother who knows this guy who builds PCs while being shacked up under house arrest. It doesn't matter who the person is -- what matters is that the builder has absolutely nothing to gain from helping you with your computer problems. None!
In KouSeiya's case, I would stress VERY HIGHLY to buy a PC from a reputable nationally-named PC company. My most important factor when buying a PC is accountability. To define, accountability is when you own a product, and the company's there when you need support. Gateway, for example, has a very high level of accountability for their products. Dell has the same, as well as Compaq, Hewlett-Pacard, Apple Computer, or just about any major brand. If the company does not help the customer with a computer problem, eventually the customer can do various things, such as report the company to the Better Business Bureau, or spread bad reviews through word-of-mouth or on the Internet. In otherwords, the company's reputation is at stake. That's accountability!
The reason why accountability is very important for KouSeiya is that she'll benefit from these two major factors:
1) The company will back her up in terms of offering technical support and computer repair when needed, as long as the PC is under warranty.
2) She does not have to worry about any other factor that does not have a level of accountability (her friend, cousin, etc.)
I'd even avoid the smaller mom-n-pop computer shops. Mom or pop may not be there for you a few months from now. What of they go out of business? What if they're not technically inclined to solve your problems?
In my professional opinion, KouSeiya should stick with her original plan and buy a major-brand PC with a full hardware warranty and locally-based repair service.
--- groink
I see your point, Groink. To the uninitiated, building a PC from scratch would be biting off more than one could chew... And in that respect, buying a reliable, name-brand, pre-built machine would be the more viable choice....
I would sorta contest the charge that home-built PCs are unreliable 'cause the people who build 'em don't care... Of the many (several dozen, I'd say) PCs that I have built/upgraded I've always put maximum effort and care into it to ensure a problem-free system... I wouldn't have too many friends left if I built their machines, then set them adrift in Windows-land with no one to fall back on if problems arose...
Just my take. :)
I would sorta contest the charge that home-built PCs are unreliable 'cause the people who build 'em don't care... Of the many (several dozen, I'd say) PCs that I have built/upgraded I've always put maximum effort and care into it to ensure a problem-free system... I wouldn't have too many friends left if I built their machines, then set them adrift in Windows-land with no one to fall back on if problems arose...
Just my take. :)
Yeah, all the systems I've built are for friends or family, and I'm completely accountable to them in more ways than say a company is accountable via warranty.
The other bright spot about building computers is that there is the option of building from namebrand parts and knowing exactly what hardware you have. This eases upgrades, as you know exactly where you need to go to get software and firmware. Name brand parts are usually supported better as they usually put out releases in fairly fast cycles (I.E., NVIDIA, ATI, realtek, creative). That is another level of accountability.
Sure, if you don't ever want to download drivers or anything unless from a central location, then go with Dell and others. Knowing a little bit about computing and being accountable to yourself, a homebuilt system will usually serve your needs better, as you perform your own sort of due diligence.
The other bright spot about building computers is that there is the option of building from namebrand parts and knowing exactly what hardware you have. This eases upgrades, as you know exactly where you need to go to get software and firmware. Name brand parts are usually supported better as they usually put out releases in fairly fast cycles (I.E., NVIDIA, ATI, realtek, creative). That is another level of accountability.
Sure, if you don't ever want to download drivers or anything unless from a central location, then go with Dell and others. Knowing a little bit about computing and being accountable to yourself, a homebuilt system will usually serve your needs better, as you perform your own sort of due diligence.
thetenken wrote:Yeah, all the systems I've built are for friends or family, and I'm completely accountable to them in more ways than say a company is accountable via warranty.
The other bright spot about building computers is that there is the option of building from namebrand parts and knowing exactly what hardware you have. This eases upgrades, as you know exactly where you need to go to get software and firmware. Name brand parts are usually supported better as they usually put out releases in fairly fast cycles (I.E., NVIDIA, ATI, realtek, creative). That is another level of accountability.
Sure, if you don't ever want to download drivers or anything unless from a central location, then go with Dell and others. Knowing a little bit about computing and being accountable to yourself, a homebuilt system will usually serve your needs better, as you perform your own sort of due diligence.
Agreed.
Well, if you're considering yourselves accountable, maybe in a mental sense you are. Of course, I don't think bmwracer or thetenken would totally ignore a user if he/she needed help. They seem like good people.
What I mean by accountability is that every component on a major-brand PC is supported under one roof, whereas an ACME PC isn't. For my PC at home, it's a NVIDIA video card, ASUS motherboard, monitor's from ViewSonic, keyboard's from Logitech, mouse is from Microsoft, and the OS is from Microsoft but installed by me. Again, I wouldn't have any trouble replacing the motherboard or video card. Even if the motherboard's out of warranty, I have enough brains to know how to replace the ASUS board with an Intel board, and re-do all the drivers.
In KouSeiya's situation, the person she buys the ACME PC from had better be VERY RELIABLE, ACCOUNTABLE, and very tech-saavy. I think she likes Gateway for the reasons I stated earlier: satisfactory or better service and support, convenience, and everything under one roof. I don't care who you are, if someone like her keeps calling you up needing help, you're going to be somewhat pissed about it. And when you've had it up to here, you're not going to be thinking that clearly. Also, what if you can't fix it? I admit, there are certain things I can't fix... For my own PCs, after a few hours of tinkering, I put on my f**k-it cap on and I re-build the system from scratch. With a system like a Gateway PC, everything is on one or two CDs. A few key strokes here and there, and you have yourself a new software build. The rebuild process is very systematic. So again, for her sake, find out if Gateway has a contract with a locally-based service center in your area, and if they do buy a Gateway PC! In Hawaii, Gateway PCs are serviced by WANG.
This is why I will NEVER build systems for friends and family, or anyone associated with them. I don't have the time or the patience to do that sort of thing. Matter of fact, when my mom asked me to teach her how to use Microsoft Windows, I sent her to CompUSA and paid them to train her. Then after the training, I bought her an over-the-phone support contract with CompUSA. That way, if she has problems, there's an 800-number for her to call, and I can go on gawking over Noriko-chan posters.
HOWEVER, if someone insists I help them, it's $135.00/hour with a 2-hour minimum (and they do actually pay me).
--- groink
What I mean by accountability is that every component on a major-brand PC is supported under one roof, whereas an ACME PC isn't. For my PC at home, it's a NVIDIA video card, ASUS motherboard, monitor's from ViewSonic, keyboard's from Logitech, mouse is from Microsoft, and the OS is from Microsoft but installed by me. Again, I wouldn't have any trouble replacing the motherboard or video card. Even if the motherboard's out of warranty, I have enough brains to know how to replace the ASUS board with an Intel board, and re-do all the drivers.
In KouSeiya's situation, the person she buys the ACME PC from had better be VERY RELIABLE, ACCOUNTABLE, and very tech-saavy. I think she likes Gateway for the reasons I stated earlier: satisfactory or better service and support, convenience, and everything under one roof. I don't care who you are, if someone like her keeps calling you up needing help, you're going to be somewhat pissed about it. And when you've had it up to here, you're not going to be thinking that clearly. Also, what if you can't fix it? I admit, there are certain things I can't fix... For my own PCs, after a few hours of tinkering, I put on my f**k-it cap on and I re-build the system from scratch. With a system like a Gateway PC, everything is on one or two CDs. A few key strokes here and there, and you have yourself a new software build. The rebuild process is very systematic. So again, for her sake, find out if Gateway has a contract with a locally-based service center in your area, and if they do buy a Gateway PC! In Hawaii, Gateway PCs are serviced by WANG.
This is why I will NEVER build systems for friends and family, or anyone associated with them. I don't have the time or the patience to do that sort of thing. Matter of fact, when my mom asked me to teach her how to use Microsoft Windows, I sent her to CompUSA and paid them to train her. Then after the training, I bought her an over-the-phone support contract with CompUSA. That way, if she has problems, there's an 800-number for her to call, and I can go on gawking over Noriko-chan posters.
HOWEVER, if someone insists I help them, it's $135.00/hour with a 2-hour minimum (and they do actually pay me).
--- groink
groink wrote:Well, if you're considering yourselves accountable, maybe in a mental sense you are. Of course, I don't think bmwracer or thetenken would totally ignore a user if he/she needed help. They seem like good people.
There's no need to insult me, Groink. ;)
This is why I will NEVER build systems for friends and family, or anyone associated with them. I don't have the time or the patience to do that sort of thing. Matter of fact, when my mom asked me to teach her how to use Microsoft Windows, I sent her to CompUSA and paid them to train her. Then after the training, I bought her an over-the-phone support contract with CompUSA. That way, if she has problems, there's an 800-number for her to call, and I can go on gawking over Noriko-chan posters.
Hmm, that a pretty hard line to take. A result of a past bad experience? I'd have to admit, if a friend kept dogging me 24/7, I'd get bent. But thankfully I have friends/relatives who are somewhat considerate of what little life I have. :)
HOWEVER, if someone insists I help them, it's $135.00/hour with a 2-hour minimum (and they do actually pay me).
Whoa. Serious green. All the more reason for me to hack with my machine and not call someone...
groink wrote:Well, if you're considering yourselves accountable, maybe in a mental sense you are. Of course, I don't think bmwracer or thetenken would totally ignore a user if he/she needed help. They seem like good people.
What I mean by accountability is that every component on a major-brand PC is supported under one roof, whereas an ACME PC isn't. For my PC at home, it's a NVIDIA video card, ASUS motherboard, monitor's from ViewSonic, keyboard's from Logitech, mouse is from Microsoft, and the OS is from Microsoft but installed by me. Again, I wouldn't have any trouble replacing the motherboard or video card. Even if the motherboard's out of warranty, I have enough brains to know how to replace the ASUS board with an Intel board, and re-do all the drivers.
True, I addressed that in a different sense. I found that accountability in knowing what hardware you have and knowing the hardware is going to be supported is better than having whatever brand hardware you don't really know and have them update the drivers once every six months.
Maybe it's just me, but I normally deal with people who have a strong sense of responsibility and have a desire to learn. I don't think they would ever bother me 24/7, because they would try to figure out the problem themselves, and maybe ask me if they get stumped. I tend not to deal with people (especially not build computers for) who have no clue (bad, but workable) and who have no desire to have a clue (the worst, I think).
In KouSeiya's situation, the person she buys the ACME PC from had better be VERY RELIABLE, ACCOUNTABLE, and very tech-saavy. I think she likes Gateway for the reasons I stated earlier: satisfactory or better service and support, convenience, and everything under one roof. I don't care who you are, if someone like her keeps calling you up needing help, you're going to be somewhat pissed about it. And when you've had it up to here, you're not going to be thinking that clearly. Also, what if you can't fix it? I admit, there are certain things I can't fix... For my own PCs, after a few hours of tinkering, I put on my f**k-it cap on and I re-build the system from scratch. With a system like a Gateway PC, everything is on one or two CDs. A few key strokes here and there, and you have yourself a new software build. The rebuild process is very systematic. So again, for her sake, find out if Gateway has a contract with a locally-based service center in your area, and if they do buy a Gateway PC! In Hawaii, Gateway PCs are serviced by WANG.
This is why I will NEVER build systems for friends and family, or anyone associated with them. I don't have the time or the patience to do that sort of thing. Matter of fact, when my mom asked me to teach her how to use Microsoft Windows, I sent her to CompUSA and paid them to train her. Then after the training, I bought her an over-the-phone support contract with CompUSA. That way, if she has problems, there's an 800-number for her to call, and I can go on gawking over Noriko-chan posters.
HOWEVER, if someone insists I help them, it's $135.00/hour with a 2-hour minimum (and they do actually pay me).
--- groink
Most technical support I have dealt with have taken one of two roads in tech support: Send it in for replacement, or reformat (re-image from CD). Unfortunately most people don't want to deal with that sort of hassle. I usually have fixed the problem they had in under 30 min, and the harder problems in a few hours. I've only had to reformat once (after their HD boot sector crapped).
Basically we're coming from two directions. I agree with you groink that there are some who see computers as a mere tool that requires zero maintainance and works whenever they want it to (usually older folks). There are also those who just don't have the time to deal with it (lawyers, doctors, other high paid folks). Yet I think most reasonable people (maybe I'm inserting a value judgment here) would (and should!) be able to learn the requirements of taking care of a computer. It only takes a few minutes to teach them how to download drivers and firmware, install certain software to protect their computers (firewalls, virii scanners, ad-spyware/trojan removers). It'll make them better users in the long run.
In closing, I think groink and I are on the same wavelength, just possibly different ways of viewing time management. =)
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