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Wynter wrote:

This is exactly what I can't wrap my mind around. They used to be ONE. It's amazing just how different the outcome can be of two totally different governments.

Politics often dictates economics....

Tu_triky wrote:

Politics often dictates economics....

Tru dat, man.

On a random note: My new Da Vinci watch just came in!!! >>struts<<

Wynter wrote:

Exactly. Like why was North Korea allowed to through out the Nuclear inspection guys when they went knocking?

With the success of their testing, all America can do now is put up sanctions. Japan, which is closer and feeling really threatened, has already done so. But I mean, it's a little too late now, isn't it?

America went into Iraq because they thought there were nukes there, and all along they knew what was happening in N. Korea. It ended up that nothing was found in Iraq, and now N. Korea has a weapon. It doesn't make sense.

this north korean problem has existed for a long time and while it should have been tackled earlier, bush seems to have been the catalyst that brought about this confrontation. in his infinite wisdom after the sept 11 attacks, he decided to label iran and n. korea as part of the axis of evil. now if you follow kim's (somewhat twisted) logic, bush has gone ahead and toppled saddam hussein in iraq, a country with no WMD. now, given bush slapped sanctions on n. korea with accusations of counterfeit money, n. korea is sees parallels between that and what happened before the iraq war. as a result, kim decides to bring his nuclear program to the fore and see what bush is going to do. now that he says he has nuclear weapons, the US can't really do very much aside from sanctions (which china opposes and for good reason).

now once again in washington, we have the blame game going on between the democrats and republicans who are accusing the bush and clinton administrations of not handling the problem. particularly with the republicans being behind in polls and the endless quagmire about the foley scandal, they'd like to pounce on anything, like the n. korea issue, to bring national security back on the minds of americans (who for some reason seem to think republicans can handle it better.....)

ever since bush has gotten into office and after the sept 11 attacks, the world has gotten more and more dangerous due to bush's failed policies in iraq and afghanistan. this has resulted in a rise in terror related incidents and his superb diplomacy in labelling countries as part of the 'axis of evil' is now bringing the iranian and north korean side of the picture into play. further, bush's continued support for israel is causing no end to the problems in the middle east.

but i digress, back to north korea :bonk:. the problem with slapping sanctions on north korea is that it will hardly affect kim himself. his people will continue to suffer but it will further aggravate kim and push him into a smaller and smaller corner, making him an even more dangerous threat. china and south korea don't want to place harsh sanctions for fear the regime will collapse leading to tons of refugees and the disappearance of a buffer between US forces in south korea and china.

the secondary effects of n. korea's policies are even more frightening. n. korea's aggressiveness is pushing japan to rethink its military structure (which was already on the agenda with the right winger abe coming to power - altho i do give kudos to him and hu jintao for meeting so quickly after coming to power and striving to mend relations with china and south korea). this would lead to a possible arms race between japan, south korea and china and possibly even taiwan. to add to that, other countries would view the ineffectiveness of both the US and the UN to control nuclear power and might lead to yet another arms race in the middle east...

lastly, i think bush's policies on north korea are continuing to aggravate the situation. north korea simply wants to deal with the US and not japan, russia, south korea, france and china. north korea simply wants more money and economic aid from the US and a possibly a treaty guaranteeing their own peace and security. having the confrontational bolton at the united nations isnt helping but perhaps we have reason to place hope in the secretary-general-elect ban ki moon to bring north korea back to the table.

and while i don't agree with what kim jong il is doing, i dont believe it is for countries with nuclear weapons to go around dictating to other countries that they cannot develop their own. as already seen by bush's (and blair's) unilateral action on iraq, america (under bush) looks intent to force regime changes wherever it feels like - leading to a rise in anti-american sentiment across the world.

what would be best right now would be for the NPT to come back to the forefront with non-nuclear first world nations like canada, germany, australia, japan etc to push this agenda and give it legitimacy; but given the right wing govts in power, this is unlikely to happen. the US should have direct talks with north korea (instead of the six-party talks) and appease kim for now.

it is truly unfortunate that the north korean people have to suffer through this and feel the effects but i believe the world would be a much more dangerous place if countries simply decide on unilateral action and force regime changes at their will. in any case, i truly hope there is a peaceful solution to this dilemma.

(as for the american election, maybe having democrat-controlled houses would rein in bush a bit, but at the very least, kick that speaker out!)

Shindou wrote:

this north korean problem

as you mentioned there are very few, if any, viable options for dealing with north korea...its ppl will continue to suffer while Jong-il's paranoia fuels his narcissistic focus on maintaining the current regime at all costs...even if economic sanctions were imposed.

military options are totally off the table.

i agree with you that china might fear an influx of refugees but i'm sure the south koreans (though thought of a humanitarian disaster is ever present...hell one already exists) would ULTIMATELY want reunification....the sticking point is that JAPAN AND CHINA wouldn't want reunification because that only shifts the power dynamic in the region. a unified korea would eventually become a stronger country than s. korea...just like a unified Germany has more clout than a West Germany.
a divided Korea is a weaker Korea....economically and politically.

at the end of the day...you know most likely all that will arise is further economic sanctions and a bunch of rhetoric from the United States, United Nations et al.

while Kim Jong-il continues to have sex with ugly female pigs brought to his palace.....the North Korean ppl will continue to suffer and die while they dance in the street like the propaganda whores that the communist state has turned them into.

Tu_triky wrote:

military options are totally off the table.

at the end of the day...you know most likely all that will arise is further economic sanctions and a bunch of rhetoric from the United States, United Nations et al.

yes, its rather unfortunate that all the parties have their own agendas to push forward and i'm pretty sure that's exactly how it'll turn out as is often the case with the UN.

so i really hope that the south korean foreign minister is up for the job of secretary-general and truly reform that bloated behemoth that is the united nations.

don't think i've ever made that long a post either (was rather fun - had to put down my thoughts :mrgreen: )

Shindou wrote:

yes, its rather unfortunate that all the parties have their own agendas to push forward and i'm pretty sure that's exactly how it'll turn out as is often the case with the UN.

so i really hope that the south korean foreign minister is up for the job of secretary-general and truly reform that bloated behemoth that is the united nations.

don't think i've ever made that long a post either (was rather fun - had to put down my thoughts :mrgreen: )

i appreciated your exposition of thought ^_^. i don't see any major changes which will force a drastic change in terms of N. Korean policy...because our current administration refuses all bilateral talks.....even if, the diplomatic skill of Condeleeza Rice is a fuggin joke.....as a bitch puppet of the White House she has got to be the WORST Secretary of State in the last 20 or so years.....

to think Bush had Colin Powell.....and after he left he gave the job to Rice as an obvious political favor.....

i despise that fuggin' idiot (for many reasons)

^^ That was a wonderful explanation of the reality of the N. Korean situation. Thank you Shindou and Tu_triky! :applaud:

Tu_triky wrote:

i appreciated your exposition of thought ^_^. i don't see any major changes which will force a drastic change in terms of N. Korean policy...because our current administration refuses all bilateral talks.....even if, the diplomatic skill of Condeleeza Rice is a fuggin joke.....as a bitch puppet of the White House she has got to be the WORST Secretary of State in the last 20 or so years.....

to think Bush had Colin Powell.....and after he left he gave the job to Rice as an obvious political favor.....

i despise that fuggin' idiot (for many reasons)

And, once again, ITA!

Shindou wrote:

yes, its rather unfortunate that all the parties have their own agendas to push forward and i'm pretty sure that's exactly how it'll turn out as is often the case with the UN.

so i really hope that the south korean foreign minister is up for the job of secretary-general and truly reform that bloated behemoth that is the united nations.

don't think i've ever made that long a post either (was rather fun - had to put down my thoughts :mrgreen: )

I totally apprecriated your post! You gave me some information on the American stance and background info on Korea I wasn't aware of. Thanks, man.

at the end of the day...you know most likely all that will arise is further economic sanctions and a bunch of rhetoric from the United States, United Nations et al.

I think Tu-san is right here. I'm a little relieved you guys think your president is a total moron. You have no idea the number of online Americans I have talked to who won't hear an argument against their beloved leader. So frustrating!

Tu_triky wrote:

i appreciated your exposition of thought ^_^. i don't see any major changes which will force a drastic change in terms of N. Korean policy...because our current administration refuses all bilateral talks.....even if, the diplomatic skill of Condeleeza Rice is a fuggin joke.....as a bitch puppet of the White House she has got to be the WORST Secretary of State in the last 20 or so years.....

to think Bush had Colin Powell.....and after he left he gave the job to Rice as an obvious political favor.....

i despise that fuggin' idiot (for many reasons)

lol, i think the current administration only has the word unilateral in their dictionary :hehe:

I doubt Bush could even spell unilateral, let alone know what it means ;)

Shindou wrote:

lol, i think the current administration only has the word unilateral in their dictionary :hehe:

no sh*t.....a bunch of self-serving delusional idiots.....i hope and pray the Republicans get punked in the November mid-term elections so that Bush will be swept aside as the LAME DUCK President he already is.

Tu_triky wrote:

no sh*t.....a bunch of self-serving delusional idiots.....i hope and pray the Republicans get punked in the November mid-term elections so that Bush will be swept aside as the LAME DUCK President he already is.

Anime Dad wrote:I doubt Bush could even spell unilateral, let alone know what it means ;)

:victory:

Anime Dad wrote:I doubt Bush could even spell unilateral, let alone know what it means ;)

most assuredly....

You know what's worse than having Bush as a leader? Having a leader that bows down to Bush, follows him like a lapdog and kisses his butt whenever possible. That's what we have :(

Anime Dad wrote:You know what's worse than having Bush as a leader? Having a leader that bows down to Bush, follows him like a lapdog and kisses his butt whenever possible. That's what we have :(

unfortunately, we seem to have caught that syndrome too :shakehead:

Sad, isn't it? There's a lot of things to like about the USA, but Bush isn't one of them :)

Anime Dad wrote:Sad, isn't it? There's a lot of things to like about the USA, but Bush isn't one of them :)

That's pretty much a consensus at the moment.

Seems to be another large influx of noobs again.

So much for those lousy minutemen. :beaten:

bmwracer wrote:Seems to be another large influx of noobs again.

So much for those lousy minutemen. :beaten:

it's never ending B......never ending. :doh: :bonk: