American Football (NFL, College, etc.)

The Man wrote:I don't like the brother either (THE OWNERS get to choose in the draft, not the other way around; imagine if the first top 10 picks decided to do the same thing. You wouldn't GET past the first top 10 picks until the end of the week).

are you sure you're not getting eli mixed up with peyton? for myself, i've always viewed peyton as down-to-earth. a tough competitor who's always doing his best to improve his game. i've yet to see him act cocky, blame others for his mistakes, or do something off-field that brings shame upon himself or his team. i mean, i heard that once, when the guy was in tennessee, he bought pizza for everyone that came early to stand in line for fball tickets.

on the other hand, the same thing cannot be said about his bro, eli. equally to blame is his dad, archie. i mean, he comes in and starts negotiating deals with everyone to get his son to another team? what's up with that? i'm totally rooting against nyg for the rest of his career. my theory is (although i'm not a parent myself), when you're a dad, sometimes, you know which son needs more 'hand-holding'.....

ok, my predictions for this weekend's games:

eagles vs falcons = falcons. i really felt the eagles got lucky vs the vikings, and the falcons played a very solid game vs the rams.

pats vs steelers = patriots. i never felt that big ben was that good, and this game is going to prove it. on the other hand, i just read a great article about steeler's def cood, dick lebeau, and i really think the guy deserves a championship, so i'd be happy either way.

jholic wrote:
are you sure you're not getting eli mixed up with peyton? for myself, i've always viewed peyton as down-to-earth. a tough competitor who's always doing his best to improve his game. i've yet to see him act cocky, blame others for his mistakes, or do something off-field that brings shame upon himself or his team. i mean, i heard that once, when the guy was in tennessee, he bought pizza for everyone that came early to stand in line for fball tickets.

Woah, woah, woah, hold on, now, fellow kama'aina, hahaha. All's I said was he talks a lot. A LOT. Does he look for scapegoats? I'd need to "go to the tape" before I make an assessment regarding that, hahah. Thing is, where I'm coming from, do we really need to hear ANYTHING the losing QB says post-playoff game; just bring in the coach to volley tomatoes at, and all -- bring in the owner, too, for good measure. And Manning sure took the time to get all comfy in a sport jacket and turtleneck (finally bowing to the weather there, perhaps, bwhahah) before he gave his, "yeah, well, that was the year in Colts football" speech.

I dunno. He's reminds me of Ozymandias from Alan Moore's Watchmen for some reason (where's that thetenken for an opinion :) ?).

I don't HATE the guy. But, I'll let you guys do a "I hate Peyton Manning" on your search bar and . . . well, I'll let ya'll's see how many results that come up, hahah.

The Man wrote:Woah, woah, woah, hold on, now, fellow kama'aina, hahaha. All's I said was he talks a lot. A LOT. Do we really need to hear ANYTHING the losing QB says post-playoff game; just bring in the coach to volley tomatoes at, and all -- bring in the owner, too, for good measure. And Manning sure took the time to get all comfy in a sport jacket and turtleneck (finally bowing to the weather there, perhaps, bwhahah) before he gave his, "yeah, well, that was the year in Colts football" speech.

ha, ha. ok, ok, my bad for a slight misunderstanding. i didn't think you hated the guy either, but for myself, i just view eli and peyton as polar opposites.

but from what i seen, i think peyton's eventually going to be on the winning side of the championship game. maybe then, he'll get a chance to talk as much as he wants. :hehe:

For what it's worth, (and it ain't worth much) my money is on Eli Manning to end up having a better NFL career than Peyton's.

It'll take a while, becaue I have absolutely no faith in Eli's head coach, Tom Coughlin, but I do think more of Eli as a football player than Peyton.

Peyton seems to be in love with his arm, his fame, and his stats.

Eli, to me, just seems to be a guy who loves to play.

We'll see.

As for the business about Archie Manning stepping in forcing San Diego's hand...

I've got no problem with what Archie did. Archie knows the NFL. He spent his whole career as a great QB on a crap team. He was looking out for his kid, and that's what a father's supposed to do.

If my kid was going into the NFL as a QB, I'd be freaked at the thought of him playing for Shotzy too.

By the way... the idea of players doing whatever they can to influence which team they go to is not new. The most famous case is probably John Elway. Baltimore was going to draft Elway with the first pick, and he said there was no way he'd play for them. He even went so far as to sign a minor league contract with the Yankees.

Once Baltimore gave up on him, Denver drafted him, and the rest is history.

Geezer wrote:
Peyton seems to be in love with his arm, his fame, and his stats.

Eli, to me, just seems to be a guy who loves to play.

We'll see.

Hahah, indeed, this is on target (I have some sorta' reservations, still, about Eli, but, you have a bit of a point there). YOU should be QB, Geezer.

jholic wrote:
i think peyton's eventually going to be on the winning side of the championship game. maybe then, he'll get a chance to talk as much as he wants.

Hahha, I just must needs respond here, fellow island JDorama board poster jholic -- P. Manning better get to work real-quick like. You ask me, he oughta send a THANK you card to USC's Leinart, best believe.

Not being Kreskin I'm not much on predictions, but---

I'm not gonna hold my breath, waiting for Marty and the Chargers to win it all. They will find a way to screw this up.

Truth to tell, all I'm thinking about these days is the Niners. I pulling big time for Nolan to succeed as the new Head Coach, and I'm hoing he's bright enough to avoid the classic PR move of drafting a QB with the #1 pick in the draft.

Geezer wrote:Not being Kreskin I'm not much on predictions, but---

I'm not gonna hold my breath, waiting for Marty and the Chargers to win it all. They will find a way to screw this up.

Truth to tell, all I'm thinking about these days is the Niners. I pulling big time for Nolan to succeed as the new Head Coach, and I'm hoing he's bright enough to avoid the classic PR move of drafting a QB with the #1 pick in the draft.

Kreskin, hahah. What happened to that guy?

Ohhhh! Niners fan! I guess you are my daddy's friend :victory: .

Just to comment on interviewing the losing QB. I think that's more of a media thing rather than Peyton's fault. After every game and especially a playoff game, they do a press conference where the coach, QB, and other players will be asked questions. Of course Peyton could deny to talk but as the captain of his team, he should be present and of course ESPN is going to air whatever he has to say where as like if Dallas Clark answered questions, ESPN probably won't air his answers.

And on the Manning brothers, I've always heard that Eli has the better arm in the family and has more talent. The kid is still young and has only played a year so I'm not too quick to jump to conclusions on his career but from what scouts say, he's a good one.

Elton,

Actually, by league rule, the Coach, QB, and any number of the players are required to make themselves available to the media. Peyton could blow them off, but he'd be fined heavily.

Re: the media getting to guys right after the game. I learned not to pay much attention to that stuff when Walter Payton broke Jim Brown's all time rushing record.

You know Walter knew it was coming... you know he'd prepared, or tried to prepare a speech. But they shoved the mics into his face too soon after the game, he was exhaused, his emotions got the better of him, and the speech came out very poorly. Made him sound dumb. And he was anything but dumb.

I don't have a big problem with Manning, P., and his press conferences. He's stuck, he has to do them, and he does alright with them.

I just don't think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread as far as QBing goes.

elt: i was gonna say the same thing about the players having to conduct interviews, but Man's point was that he talked 'too much'. which means that he probably could've cut it short. i didn't see the interview, so i can't comment on it. every interview that i HAVE seen of peyton's has been a good one. he's either an oscar-winning actor or .....

Geez: i just didn't see the eli/sd/nyg draft the same as you did. archie was a terrific nfl player. as such, he should respect the way of the nfl. the teams draft who they choose. not the other way around. as an adult (and a pro athlete), i would've been EMBARRASSED to have my daddy come to my rescue.

re: eli. you must've meant that he 'just wants to play' for a team of his own choosing. he's not interested in making just any team better w/ his ability (like ladanian, peyton, etc.). but he might be - if it's in a big spotlight city w/ plenty of media exposure, marketing ability, etc.

in any case, that's just the way that i've viewed things, and that's why i have a hard time comparing peyt and eli. to me, it's the media that's kinda exaggerating peyt, but i can't put the blame on him.

but i'm gonna give you guys the benefit of the doubt. in future interviews with peyt, i'm gonna try to see him as the guy who only cares about his stats, his fame, etc.

in the meantime, perhaps you guys can see if it's really the media that's pumping peyton up, or is it peyton himself.

'nuff of my ranting. :bonk:

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Geez: nolan's gonna get the top pick in the draft. you've mentioned that you don't want him to take a qb. who would you rather get? or trade down (for more picks)?

jholic wrote:elt: i was gonna say the same thing about the players having to conduct interviews, but Man's point was that he talked 'too much'. which means that he probably could've cut it short. i didn't see the interview, so i can't comment on it. every interview that i HAVE seen of peyton's has been a good one. he's either an oscar-winning actor or .....

Ah ic, I didn't really see the press conference either. I only saw that little clip of him saying something like it was a great run but we still lost and I read that line in an article about the game. Didn't find much else on what Manning had to say.

I think SF should draft an offensive lineman, but since Mike Nolan is a defensive coach, he would probably pick a defensive player. Nonetheless it really doesn't matter cause we got a cheap bastard up in the front office. They might wanna draft a LB in the later rounds for insurance cause we have Mr. Injury Prone and a greedy bastard as our outside linebackers.

jholic wrote:are you sure you're not getting eli mixed up with peyton? for myself, i've always viewed peyton as down-to-earth. a tough competitor who's always doing his best to improve his game. i've yet to see him act cocky, blame others for his mistakes, or do something off-field that brings shame upon himself or his team. i mean, i heard that once, when the guy was in tennessee, he bought pizza for everyone that came early to stand in line for fball tickets.

I was pretty much thinking the same thing.

Oh well, you can't make everybody happy.

Geezer wrote:Peyton seems to be in love with his arm, his fame, and his stats.

Eli, to me, just seems to be a guy who loves to play.

Eh??

So Peyton doesn't love playing football?

Dang, a guy rolls up some impressive stats to help his team and you guys slam him... It's not like he's juiced or something... :shakehead:

bmw: not only that, but he breaks the record and requested that there be no game-stopping ceremony. :applaud: for me, there are athletes that say things on camera to make themselves look good (yeah, it was my o line, no it was my teammates, yada-yada-yada), but it doesn't come from the heart and their 'other' actions show who they really are. if peyton's one of those guys, he must be putting up one heck of a facade....

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well, here were my predictions, and i haven't changed it:

eagles vs falcons = falcons. i really felt the eagles got lucky vs the vikings, and the falcons played a very solid game vs the rams.

pats vs steelers = patriots. i never felt that big ben was that good, and this game is going to prove it. on the other hand, i just read a great article about steeler's def cood, dick lebeau, and i really think the guy deserves a championship, so i'd be happy either way.


anyone else?

jholic wrote:bmw: not only that, but he breaks the record and requested that there be no game-stopping ceremony.

Hhaahhaheheh, that's quite a bit of arrogance in itself; he lucky they never w'en tell 'em, "prrrffft, as if! We weren't planning a game-stop, you know," hahaha.

OK, well, as far as I'm concerned . . . on to THE games to determine.

jholic wrote:but Man's point was that he talked 'too much'. which means that he probably could've cut it short.

Yeah, pretty much. I came to that assessment once I noticed that I was yawning as he kept talking and explaining, and talking and explaining, well, you get the picture, hahahaha. :victory:

jholic wrote:Geez: i just didn't see the eli/sd/nyg draft the same as you did. archie was a terrific nfl player. as such, he should respect the way of the nfl. the teams draft who they choose. not the other way around. as an adult (and a pro athlete), i would've been EMBARRASSED to have my daddy come to my rescue.

Yeah, I pretty lean more toward jholic's 'pinion. At the same time, I wholeheartedly understand and respect what Geezer is saying, sure, that's a valid point -- my own pappy once said, "you know when your parents stop caring about you? When they're six feet under the ground." That's deep. Truly.

So, I guess, as much as the Manning daddy had as much "pull" as any ex-NFL player (didn't hurt that he already had a celebrity QB in the NFL already) would, father Manning went ahead to help orchestrate what he could to help his boy. That all having been said, the way that the NFL Trade Waltz itself is orchestrated nowadays, I still think father Manning should've let things play out the way it did (you mark my word; SD WILL win a Super Bowl while Eli's . . . somewhere else). After all . . . you just KNOW you've seen the last of this seeming nepotism, even in the esoteric, deity-like halls of the NFL. Yeah. Modern-day gods. Prrfft.

Part of parents' caring for their kids is . . . knowing when to let their children go and, I suppose, unless you become a parent, you'll never know what a conundrum "letting go" is exactly supposed to mean or when the time comes (usually when we all hit 18 or 19 or younger in some circumstances) can they really admit that they're truly "letting go"? Oh, wow. Is this too Sartrean (you philos' types tell me if I'm off base)?

Anyway . . . at the same time, though . . . li'l Manning brother must've STILL known SD's faring in playoff/Superbowl play at the very least, as much as the rest of us do.

Sorry for laughing so much. I think Mr. Geezer monikered I as "chuckles" once. I guess that's true, hahaha.

bmwracer wrote:
Eh??

So Peyton doesn't love playing football?

Dang, a guy rolls up some impressive stats to help his team and you guys slam him... It's not like he's juiced or something... :shakehead:

BMW,

Wow man. You've been living in the land of the fuzzy bunnies too long if you consider that a slam.

Besides, where did I say that Peyton doesn't love playing football?

And to bring up whether or not he's juicing? Nobody even hinted at anything like that.

I made my bias pretty clear earlier on, I thought. I'm not a Peyton Manning fan. I haven't been since the media tagged him as the second coming back when he was a Soph at Tenn.

And as for records, and stats, my gut twists in a knot whenever I hear some baseball fantasy playing stat cruncher trying to evaluate a football player or a football team the way they would a baseball player.

I think it's comparing apples and cinder blocks.

As for the Archie Manning kerfuffle, everybody's entitled to their own opinion. All I'll say is... The NFL draft is on some pretty shakey ethical and legal grounds as it is.

The owners and the PA have spent a lot of time in court trying to keep it going, but it's been an uphill battle.

Drafting players into the NFL isn't the same thing as Drafting Citizens into the Army..

The NFL is your career, your business, your job, and it's tough, from a player's perspective, to know that you have no say in where you'll go to work, where you have to live, and who you have to work for.

As for players, their parents, and their agents trying to arrange where their kid will play... it happens every single year. Top round choices are always going to certain teams saying, don't even bother drafting the kid. He won't play for you.

That's why, for the last 10 years or so, everyone's known who was gonna be the first pick in the draft... before draft day. It's because the teams won't draft a guy early unless they've already worked out a contract with him, and his reps.

Manny,

You might be right. San Diego might win a Superbowl before N.Y. But I wouldn't bet on it. These are the guys who were so sure Drew Breese was a bust that they tried to get Manning, and when that fell through they went out and drafted Phil Rivers in the first, and paid him millions and millions of dollars, because he was gonna be their saviour.

Then they beefed up the O-Line, to help L.T. in the running game, and son of a gun, they found out that if they gave Drew a little protection, he's a hell of a QB.

So now they've got a pro bowl QB in the prime of his career, and a huge investment in a rookie QB.

Brilliant.

Yeah, that's the way they planned it. Uh-hugh.

bmwracer wrote:
Eh??

So Peyton doesn't love playing football?

Dang, a guy rolls up some impressive stats to help his team and you guys slam him... It's not like he's juiced or something... :shakehead:

The way I see it is sort of like how people viewed Favre in his prime. Back in the mid 90s, Favre was arguably the best QB in the league. Back then I hated his guts cause he killed the 49ers all the time. So unless you lived in Green Bay, you probably didn't like Favre. So what has changed about Favre today from the mid 90s? Well not much, first off he's older and can't perform as well as he once did and he has gray hair around his head but aside from that he's really the same guy. He's always been a class act on and off of the field. I'm a Favre fan now and it seems like everyone around me who once hated him is now rooting for him. So looking at the QBs today, Manning is probably the most talented QB in the league. He has an amazing arm and the perfect throws he makes is astounding but I guess that's what also makes people not like him. Sort of like hating the best. If you're an Indy native, you love him, if you're not you're against him. The media is always going to make a lot of controversy over the best QB so there will always be haters regardless. Only real difference between Favre and Manning is that Favre has a ring and Manning doesn't but personally I'm a Manning fan and I want him to win a ring. Also he's done miracles for my fantasy team too :hehe: :hehe:

Crawling out from the cave, peeking outside "Is the regular season over now, so I can watch football and not get the urge to commit seppuku when I see the 49ers?" :banghead: :mecry: :bonk: :beaten:
-PCM