Politics/Elections/World News

Started by pcmodem · 6 Oct 2004 · 1,480 replies

General Discussion Page 18 of 75

4 Nov 2004, 05:51 #341
Doramafan113 wrote:
gregsan wrote:

Remarks like this just make Democrats look like BITTER SORE LOSERS.



I would say that I am bitter, sad, mad, and a hundred other emotions all in one. I am not ashamed to admit that I am proud to say it. I wanted Kerry to win because I thought he was the best man for the job and the person I really did not want to win will be president for the next 4 years of my life. Unless he and Cheney are impeached! I hope, I hope, I hope.


There's something to be said about being gracious in defeat.
4 Nov 2004, 06:03 #342
gregsan wrote:
The people in the military (the one's ACTUALLY losing their lives) support Bush by a vast majority (4-1).


Greg, my grandfather was career air force.

My uncles (x2) and father served in Vietnam in the jungle and on riverboats.

My brother is career army and just got back from over a year of dodging bullets in Iraq.

ALL SAW COMBAT, none got "National Guard" priviledged-son of a Senator duty. None of us support Bush.

Statistically, look up the national debt in 2000 versus today, along with the US population in 2000 and 2004. You'll notice that the per capita debt has increased significantly.

The proposal to remove the tax benefits of US corporate income on foreign outsourcing American jobs was shot down by the GOP this year.

Special note: I am a staunch supporter of the former President Bush (1988-1992), it's his son that I think is a pale shadow of the father.
-PCM
4 Nov 2004, 06:15 · edited #343
pcmodem wrote:

Greg, my grandfather was career air force.

My uncles (x2) and father served in Vietnam in the jungle and on riverboats.

My brother is career army and just got back from over a year of dodging bullets in Iraq.

ALL SAW COMBAT, none got "National Guard" priviledged-son of a Senator duty. None of us support Bush.



That's great. Do your Uncle and Dad think they committed atrocities in Vietnam? Are they ashamed of their service and think they were criminals for fighting that war? That's how Kerry portrayed the war during his senate hearings in the 1970s.

My half brother is in the Air Force, and my Uncle served during WWII in a tank division and was awarded the Medal of Honor - and still refuses to discuss the war to this day.

I don't know how that makes people who voted for Bush morons. We (those who voted for Bush) don't see everything the same way you do. It's as simple as that. If everyone agreed...there'd be NO POINT in even having elections. But people don't agree...that's what elections are for.

The fact that your entire family doesn't support Bush only means that you guys agree with each other. Families oftentimes share similar views. The military as a whole WHOLE-HEARTEDLY supports G. W. Bush. Period.
4 Nov 2004, 06:26 #344
gregsan wrote:
The military as a whole WHOLE-HEARTEDLY supports G. W. Bush. Period.


Are you joking? The Pentagon can't stand the Bush administration! Haven't you been following the news in the last 1.5 years?

I mean, look what the White House did to General Shinseki after he told the truth to Congress about expected trooop levels and duration. The Bush Administration is on record for saying that the Iraqi's wanted Democracy, would welcome American troops, and the war would practically finance itself with oil production.

Tours of duty have been extended beyond a year, reservists are serving well beyond mandatory time, and even discharged soldiers are being called up that have finished duty.

Essentially, invading and securing Iraq has been a disaster. If they wanted to have done it right, they should have followed the recommendations of the Pentagon. Instead, we have a Commander-In-Chief that never saw active combat and a Vice President draft-dodger calling the shots instead of the professionals.
-PCM
4 Nov 2004, 06:34 #345
pcmodem wrote:

Are you joking? The Pentagon can't stand the Bush administration! Haven't you been following the news in the last 1.5 years?

I mean, look what the White House did to General Shinseki after he told the truth to Congress about expected trooop levels and duration. The Bush Administration is on record for saying that the Iraqi's wanted Democracy, would welcome American troops, and the war would practically finance itself with oil production.

Tours of duty have been extended beyond a year, reservists are serving well beyond mandatory time, and even discharged soldiers are being called up that have finished duty.

Essentially, invading and securing Iraq has been a disaster. If they wanted to have done it right, they should have followed the recommendations of the Pentagon. Instead, we have a Commander-In-Chief that never saw active combat and a Vice President draft-dodger calling the shots instead of the professionals.
-PCM


Where's your support to that claim? Polls don't agree with your assessment.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-10-03-bush-troops_x.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/16/politics/campaign/16military.html

General Shinseki was set to retire before all of this. You need to get your facts straight!!

From Fact Check.org (http://www.factcheck.org/article275.html)

Forced to Retire?

Kerry claimed, as he had in the first debate, that the Army's Chief of Staff, Gen. Eric K. Shinseki, was forced to retire for saying before the invasion of Iraq that many more troops were needed than the administration was planning to send.

It is true that Shinseki told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Feb. 25, 2003 that "something on the order of several hundred thousand soldiers" would be required for an occupation of Iraq. It is also true that Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz called that estimate "wildly off the mark" in testimony to the House Budget Committee on Feb. 27, 2003. And it is true that the general retired several months later on June 11, 2003.

But the administration didn't force General Shinseki to retire. In fact, The Washington Times reported Shinseki's plans to retire nearly a year before his Feb. 25, 2003 testimony. The Times article was published April 19, 2002:

Washington Times: He (Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld) and Army Secretary Thomas White have settled on Gen. John M. Keane, Army deputy chief of staff, to succeed the current chief, Gen. Eric Shinseki. Gen. Shinseki does not retire for more than a year. Sources offer differing reasons for the early selection
4 Nov 2004, 06:38 #346
One thing I won't miss is all the commercials on t.v. and news projections and coverage of who is visiting what state.
4 Nov 2004, 06:38 #347
gregsan wrote:
General Shinseki was set to retire before all of this. You need to get your facts straight!!


I never wrote that Shinseki was forced to retire.
-PCM


===================EDIT

Greg, by the way, I can leave all of the political stuff at-the-door, so to speak. Keep it confined to a strictly political section as it were. I still welcome your opinion and all that. :)
4 Nov 2004, 06:42 #348
pcmodem wrote:

I never wrote that Shinseki was forced to retire.
-PCM


"look what the White House did to General Shinseki after he told the truth to Congress" - OK. You got me...WHAT did they do exactly? BTW...he didn't "tell the truth" - he gave his OPINION. Military strategy is just that...strategy. It's subjective.
4 Nov 2004, 09:13 #349
Greg,

That's great. Do your Uncle and Dad think they committed atrocities in Vietnam? Are they ashamed of their service and think they were criminals for fighting that war? That's how Kerry portrayed the war during his senate hearings in the 1970s.


Did the U.S. troops commit atrocities in Vietnam? Yes. Sadly, yes.

If you think the atricities committed in Vietnam by U.S. troops is just a liberal myth... you have a lot of reading to do. The My Lai Massacre
happened. And it wasn't an isolated event.

Try reading General Tommy Franks' comments on this subject. Try reading General Powell's.

And as for Kerry's portrayal of the actions of the U.S. troops to Congress in 1971... he wasn't just making accusations. He was relaying the stories and the admissions of U.S. vets, as recounted at gatherings of vets held all over the country a month before. Kerry went to the big one held in Detroit a month before he testified before Congress. THAT'S WHY HE WENT TO TESTIFY BEFORE CONGRESS.

Because he was the head of Vets against the war, THE VETS asked him to tell their stories to the Congress. To be their spokesman.

If the film clips that TV has been showing you have given you the impression that Kerry was a lone voice, pointing a finger... you've got it very very wrong.

If it's important to you, if knowing what the vets, and the country were really going through at that time... go to the library and get a copy of the testimony. You'll get a very different impression of what went on that day in Congress.
4 Nov 2004, 09:27 #350
gregsan wrote:
bmwracer wrote:
Yow. High rollers. :sweat:

The buffet or the Casino? We don't stay there...and only ate at the buffet once. $25/person isn't too much. High rollers would be like $50-75/person. A sushi dinner will cost you usually $20+ per person.

I was being sarcastic about the huge $1.00 tip. :)
4 Nov 2004, 09:31 #351
Geezer wrote:Me too. I am bitter, I am a sore loser, and I'm damned depressed. And I'm not ashamed to shout it from the rooftops.

Make it three.

I can be gracious in losing a softball game, basketball game, Trivial Pursuit, etc., but when it come to the fate of the nation, no, Uh uh, iye... :shakehead:
4 Nov 2004, 10:21 #352
[image]

Take that suckas!

So John Kerry walks into a bar and the bartender says to him, "Hey John, why the long face?"
4 Nov 2004, 10:52 #353
pcmodem wrote:After yesterday's election, now it's clear to me how people like Hitler have come into power in the age of populist politics:

1. Voters just want to hear what they want to hear, irrespective of reality
2. Voters will vote for their party's candidate no matter how poor of a job they have done, even if they are destroying their own country

I won't be surprised to see more terrorist acts committed against Americans now, as we are now hated more internationally than we have ever been.
-PCM

This has got to be one of the most ill-informed, ignorant, and downright stupid comment I've ever heard. The kind only capable of being made by idealogues who cry when they don't get their way. It shows the obvious fact that you have no grounding in reality while you bask in the immense freedoms that you criticize. You have no idea what true tyranny is. Let me tell you something - we are not even beginning to head in that direction. You've never had to watch people eating tree bark while their government lavishes in banquets provided by foreign aid. You've never seen people shot and left to die simply because they wanted to leave their country for a better life. You've never seen the broken body of a woman who was stoned because it was her "fault" she was raped. Nope. Your candidate didn't get elected and we're spiralling towards oppression.

Your way or everyone is wrong. That's the simple argument that spurred how many countless conflicts and atrocities, including the one we are fighting now. Maybe you don't understand the enemy we are fighting who, by the way, is in Iraq. If you'd ever been there, and fought on the streets, you would know that many are not Iraqis. This is a battle for our survival, and better in Iraq than in the streets of the US - which ironically is not filled with mass battles and suicide attacks despite some of the ravings here. Maybe you do, because you sound just like them.

So how is Bush like Hitler? Patriot Act? Can you post any part of it that's unconstitutional from the Act itself, and not from some interpretation of its evil. The fact is that the Patriot Act grants terrorism investigations the same tools that criminal investigations have had for the last 30 or so years, and with more judicial oversight. Tell me, what freedoms or constitutional rights have been lost like you've all claimed? Zero. A little inconvienece and the cries of oppression fly. You don't know how good you have it. When I hear comments like yours, it gives me that moment of pause when I wonder if spending more than all my adult years stomping through the mountains and deserts and other god-forsaken places on this Earth was worth it. But to know that you can say such stupid things without retribution proves that I've done my job well and can continue to do it proudly.

I only pop in and add to threads like these to dispel the myths and lies that seem to run rampant when people argue with emotion rather than facts, but this comment has truly crossed the line. In any self-respecting forum, a comment like that would have caused the thread to be locked and tossed. You know what....forget it. This is my last post. Go ahead and make remarks about "not letting the doorknob hit my ass" or "so long, you won't be missed", I don't really care and don't expect better. I'm sure Geezer already has a list of names like "Bushy" or "Republican dog" lined up, despite the fact I haven't supported Bush on this thread, only shot down all the BS that's constantly reiterated without question.

Genma, thanks for the forum. The rest is still great.

BMWRacer, it was good getting to chat with you a little. And thanks for the Ryoko thread.
4 Nov 2004, 11:46 #354
i dont know about you guys, but this week has been a pretty shit for me. lots of crummy stuff has happened, pretty random post huh.
lets all just chill. okie! lol
maybe it would be best to delete or lock this thread or whatever.
4 Nov 2004, 11:58 #355
Kijinnmaru wrote:I only pop in and add to threads like these to dispel the myths and lies that seem to run rampant when people argue with emotion rather than facts, but this comment has truly crossed the line. In any self-respecting forum, a comment like that would have caused the thread to be locked and tossed. You know what....forget it. This is my last post. Go ahead and make remarks about "not letting the doorknob hit my ass" or "so long, you won't be missed", I don't really care and don't expect better. I'm sure Geezer already has a list of names like "Bushy" or "Republican dog" lined up, despite the fact I haven't supported Bush on this thread, only shot down all the BS that's constantly reiterated without question.

Genma, thanks for the forum. The rest is still great.

BMWRacer, it was good getting to chat with you a little. And thanks for the Ryoko thread.

Aw man, say it ain't so....! :(

It was a pretty emotional election, so everyone's venting post-election, that's all...

I hope you'll reconsider your decision about bailing out here......
4 Nov 2004, 13:35 #356
Before any of you run off to Canada on a whim...

Unhappy Democrats Need to Wait to Get Into Canada...
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=6704292

--- groink
4 Nov 2004, 14:23 · edited #357
*deleted* neutral
4 Nov 2004, 14:33 #358
kyouki wrote:everyone is entitled to their own opinion

Well, yeah, but when it comes to politics and religion things get pretty emotional and personal... So it doesn't take much to set people off...
4 Nov 2004, 14:35 #359
just deleted the post :) dont wanna spark up any anger in an already heated forum..
4 Nov 2004, 14:42 #360
kyouki wrote:just deleted the post :) dont wanna spark up any anger in an already heated forum..

No need really... You're remark was valid. :)

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