American Football (NFL, College, etc.)

i kinda felt like the patriots were more like the pistons - using teamwork and good coaching/chemistry to win games. but i don't watch too much nba.

elt & geez, i totally agree w/ you. al davis DOES have a try-to-win attitude. some of his ideas have not been the greatest, but he's a lot more proactive than other owners. he's got a good combination of football knowledge and ownership skills. he's not as meddlesome as jerry jones, but not as completely hands-off like some owners.

however, i cannot agree that turner is a good coach. he's an excellent coordinator (gawd i loved him when he was the off cood for the 'boys). but as a head coach, it always seems like he's a deer caught in the headlights. perhaps he may need another year or two to ramp up, but w/ all those free agent acquisitions and the raiders sucking THIS bad? i can't imagine who else they'd need to sign to make this team look better.

whereas oakland signed players to balance norv's deficiency in defensive coaching, my 'boys, on the other hand, relied too much on parcell's coaching and too little on acquiring talent/bignames. i mean, i'm surprised we didn't sign rodney hampton and phil simms!!

jholic


Actually, I think the real job for a Raider HC is to be a coordinator.

Al's the H.C. Always has been.

That's sort of why I think Turner is a good fit for the Raiders.

Now if only Al would pick the Niners a new Head Coach. The last guy he convinced Eddie D to hire worked out pretty damned well.

Geezer wrote:jholic

Now if only Al would pick the Niners a new Head Coach. The last guy he convinced Eddie D to hire worked out pretty damned well.

Hey wasn't Larry Ellison considering buying the 49ers or something but the current owner wouldn't sell it? I think Ellison as an owner would definately benefit a sports team given him and his billion dollar bank account. Switching to the NBA for a sec, I really wish Cohen would sell the Warriors to an owner who doesn't mind spending some cash. :sweat:

Geezer wrote:Actually, I think the real job for a Raider HC is to be a coordinator.

ha, well, you're probably right, but i don't think that would spell success for the raiders. i thought jon gruden did a pretty good job as a hc there. take a look at dallas. before parcells, everyone knew jj was the hc. to me, if you're a meddlesome owner that wants to act like the hc, then wear the headset. don't get some kind of scapegoat to take the blame.

and i don't know if money can solve a team's problems either. look at how much dan snyder (washington) kicked out. they're still horrible.

i was telling my friends that i truly believe that coaching is what sets the difference between teams. in this day and age of free agency, salary caps, draft picks, etc, if you've got a 6'5", 300lb def tackle, so do i. whatever hidden talent you've got on your team, i've pretty much got on my team. it's really the coaching that's going to set the difference.

i know what some people may ask me: if you stuck bill belicheck in sf, would he win the superbowl?

this year? no. but give him a few seasons, and i believe he could. conversely, if you gave erickson 10 seasons there, do i believe he could EVER win the big one? no. that's just my personal opinion, and you can print and bronze this post.

i've been wrong. i'm human. but as long as i've been watching the nfl, the coaching aspect has become more and more important.

eltinator wrote:Hey wasn't Larry Ellison considering buying the 49ers or something but the current owner wouldn't sell it? I think Ellison as an owner would definately benefit a sports team given him and his billion dollar bank account. Switching to the NBA for a sec, I really wish Cohen would sell the Warriors to an owner who doesn't mind spending some cash. :sweat:

Oh no, not Larry Ellison.... :bleh: Sure the guy has the cash, but an even bigger ego than Mark Cuban... I can see Ellison micromanaging the crap out of the 9ers... :shakehead:

Can't you think of another billionaire to buy SF that's less abrasive??

bmwracer wrote:
Oh no, not Larry Ellison.... :bleh: Sure the guy has the cash, but an even bigger ego than Mark Cuban... I can see Ellison micromanaging the crap out of the 9ers... :shakehead:

Can't you think of another billionaire to buy SF that's less abrasive??

Bill Gates? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

eltinator wrote:Bill Gates? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Maybe, but he's not interested in sports teams.


Paul Allen is a good example: he bankrolled the JailBlazers, but (apparently) hasn't tried to micromanage the team, even though they've been consistent also-rans...

bmwracer wrote:
Maybe, but he's not interested in sports teams.


Paul Allen is a good example: he bankrolled the JailBlazers, but (apparently) hasn't tried to micromanage the team, even though they've been consistent also-rans...

Blazers were good but he didn't know how to collect players and get rid of the cancerous ones. In the end he was just left with all the rejects and tried to fix things. Hec he paid Jermaine O'neal a ton of money to sit on the bench and then shipped him to Indy. Anyone could have seen O'neals potential in those garbage minutes he got in Portland. Sadly the Blazers got a better record than my Warriors :beaten:

I think they need a reality show for who's going to be the owner of a sports team. Forget the CEO positions, owning a franchise is way cooler! :hehe: :hehe:

eltinator wrote:I think they need a reality show for who's going to be the owner of a sports team. Forget the CEO positions, owning a franchise is way cooler! :hehe: :hehe:

oh, man! that would be pretty awesome. i mean, it wouldn't even have to be the owner. just a (handsomely) paid assistant w/ a pro team for a season. imagine how much you could learn in terms of the sport. offensive/defensive schemes, mechanics, techniques, conditioning, how the behind-the-scenes works, etc. after that experience, you'd watch the game in a whole new way!

eltinator wrote:Blazers were good but he didn't know how to collect players and get rid of the cancerous ones.

Was Allen in charge of that or did he leave it to the group managing the Blazers? I thought his main contribution was providing the green.

In the end he was just left with all the rejects and tried to fix things.

Gee, that sounds like the football team we were talking about above. :hehe:

Hec he paid Jermaine O'neal a ton of money to sit on the bench and then shipped him to Indy. Anyone could have seen O'neals potential in those garbage minutes he got in Portland.

I dunno about that. Hindsight, y'know...

I think they need a reality show for who's going to be the owner of a sports team. Forget the CEO positions, owning a franchise is way cooler! :hehe: :hehe:

:angry: :angry: No more reality shows!!! :angry: :angry:

bmwracer wrote:
Was Allen in charge of that or did he leave it to the group managing the Blazers? I thought his main contribution was providing the green.

Well you still gotta put the right people in the front office. His last good coach was Adelman then he followed that up with Carlesimo and didn't he employ Mike Dunleavy somewhere in there and then Maurice Cheeks. As an owner he's gotta do more then give money to people to do things. Get involved like Cuban and the Maloof brothers. It only helps the game and shows the fans that the owener actually cares for the team. I'm all for owners like that.

bmwracer wrote:
Gee, that sounds like the football team we were talking about above.

Damn right! My Raiders! :mrgreen: Why do you think I want Ricky in a Raiders uni so bad? I've gone from pulling my hair out when the Raiders get a penalty to accepting it. It's part of their game, the team make up, and what the media wants to portray the Raiders as, so why not. A bunch of rejected, yet talented players put together. I never said it won't win a superbowl though, and it'd be kind of nice if they had beaten tampa. Worked under Gruden at least.

bmwracer wrote:
I dunno about that. Hindsight, y'know...

Hahaha, well O'neal was one of the players I followed closely since he came out in the draft with Kobe. Kobe quickly became a good reserve guard to a 6th man of the year to starter and then to one of the league's best player. O'neal on the other hand was always the other kid out of HS in that draft that took a bit longer to mature. I saw him play his first 3 years in the league and he completely sucked but then after that I saw him start to dominate in the garbage time for the Blazers. Of course he never made it into the rotation given that they had Brian Grant averaging 13 boards at the time and Rasheed Wallace as the backup and Sabonis was still able to move a little bit. Anyways Portland ended up trying to keep O'neal by giving him a nice contract but no playing time to show for it and he kept complaing and he went to Indiana and the rest is gravy. Personally I would have built the team around him and traded Sheed away a long time ago. Now they got Zach Randolph the short overweight PF, but I guess he still gets the job done. Like a tank or something. Anyways I just realized this was the NFL thread :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

eltinator wrote:Get involved like Cuban and the Maloof brothers. It only helps the game and shows the fans that the owener actually cares for the team. I'm all for owners like that.

The Maloofs maybe, but Cuban? No. :shakehead:

No problem with owners who care for the team, but when they think they're above the law and their antics overshadow the team, then it's over the line... I mean, the first thing that pops into my head when I hear the Mavericks mentioned is "Mark Cuban. Asshole," not Dirk Nowitski or Michael Finley...

Anyways I just realized this was the NFL thread :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

Oh yeah. :bonk: :hehe:

jholic

I'm not gonna spend much time singing the praises of Big Al Davis... but there is a major difference between him and guys like JJ in Dallas, and Snyder in Wash.

Davis is first, last and always a football man.

Davis was a coach. He was the OC for the old L.A. Chargers in '60 through '62 when he was tagged to be the head coach of the Raiders in 1963.

He was so successful he was named HC and Managing partner, and only gave up the HC gig when he was named the Commissoner of the AFL. He was one of the main players in the merger of the NFL and AFL.

With Davis we're not talking about a rich guy who likes to tinker with stuff he really doesn't understand.

We're talking about a rich guy who's been a successful coach in professional football for almost 50 years.

Big difference.

And yeah, Gruden did a terrific job with the Raiders. But he wanted more say... more power... and Big Al just wasn't interested in giving up controll.

Davis will go on picking the Free Agents, and he'll have the final say in who gets drafted, and who's contract get extended.

Turner will be the game day coach, and he'll call the plays.

For a guy like Turner, I think it's a pretty good fit.

Now, if you want to talk crap owners... York the Dork has sure
made a name for himself.

bmwracer wrote:
The Maloofs maybe, but Cuban? No.

No problem with owners who care for the team, but when they think they're above the law and their antics overshadow the team, then it's over the line... I mean, the first thing that pops into my head when I hear the Mavericks mentioned is "Mark Cuban. Asshole," not Dirk Nowitski or Michael Finley...

Awww c'mon man, it's all for good entertainment. Cuban knows how to put the fans in the seats and coming from where the Mavericks were pre-Cuban to what they are now, he built a contending team. Personally I like that kind of owner who goes all out like that. You probably have a different opinion given that you're a Lakers fan and you guys are used to winning but people like me down in the bay area that pray the Warriors don't lose 50 games want some shake up. I have no problems with Cuban thinking he's above the law, it's hilarious to watch him. And of course it's even funnier to watch him when the Kings torched his team last year :hehe: :hehe:

eltinator wrote:Awww c'mon man, it's all for good entertainment. Cuban knows how to put the fans in the seats and coming from where the Mavericks were pre-Cuban to what they are now, he built a contending team. Personally I like that kind of owner who goes all out like that. You probably have a different opinion given that you're a Lakers fan and you guys are used to winning but people like me down in the bay area that pray the Warriors don't lose 50 games want some shake up. I have no problems with Cuban thinking he's above the law, it's hilarious to watch him. And of course it's even funnier to watch him when the Kings torched his team last year :hehe: :hehe:

Call me a purist, but I pay money to see athletes playing ball, not some owner making an ass of himself like a five-year old spoiled brat....

bmwracer wrote:
Call me a purist, but I pay money to see athletes playing ball, not some owner making an ass of himself like a five-year old spoiled brat....

Hehehe, I pay money to see both. 2 for the price of 1 :hehe: :hehe:

DATELINE, HAWAI'I, 10:57PM, HI TIME, 12/04/05

LAST WEEK . . . THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI'I WARRIOR FOOTBALL TEAM BEATS NORTHWESTERN U.!

TONIGHT . . .

The Michigan St. University Spartans LOSE to THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI'I WARRIOR FOOTBALL TEAM!

THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI'I WARRIOR FOOTBALL TEAM WAS DOWN 0 POINTS TO MSU'S 20 POINTS EARLIER IN THE FIRST HALF!

i.e.,

THE WARRIORS BEAT OUT TWO BIG TEN TEAMS.

THE ALMA MATER HAS JUST BEEN SUNG AT ALOHA STADIUM

AND THE WARRIORS HAVE JUST BEEN INVITED TO A BOWL!!!!!!

ALOHA!

P.S. AND TIMMY CHANG ADDS TO THE NCAA PASSING RECORD (he is almost up to 17,000 yards!!!!) AND WILL ADD MORE SOON!

THE CONCH SHELL BLOWS THROUGH THE NIGHT!
TAILGATE, PART II IS JUST ABOUT STARTING IN THE PARKING LOT!
THE RAIN IS COMIN' DOWN!
THE SENIOR PLAYERS ARE BEING INTRODUCED AND ARE MARCHING BACK ONTO THE FIELD!
GOT DIV' 1A COLLEGIATE FOOTBALL TEAM? TELL 'EM COME TO HAWAI'I!!!!! MUUUHHHHUAHAHHAHAHHA!!!!

EO

EO

EO

GO WARRIORS!!!!

P.P.S. HATS OFF TO COACH JUNE JONES!!!! MUCH RESPECT!

Geezer wrote:Big Al Davis... but there is a major difference between him and guys like JJ in Dallas, and Snyder in Wash.

Davis is first, last and always a football man.

oh, yes. i agree with this. it's hard to say that jj ISN'T a football man. after all, the guy did play football, and i'm sure he followed it all his life. but, as you pointed out, he never coached it (until he owned the 'boys).

here's my theory. after jimmy johnson, jj's pretty much hired all these puppet coaches, and i really feel he's the one calling a lot of the shots. the only thing bigger than his ego, however, is his hatred of losing. and that's why he has admitted to himself that he needs a REAL coach (parcells).

the unfortunate thing, however, is that after he has "learned" how to coach a team (using parcells 'winning techniques'), and bill retires, he's going to hire more puppet coaches (but this time, with the idea that he really knows how to coach the team).

that's just my theory. only time will tell if i'm wrong. i don't have anything against this method - as long as parcells can get a superbowl before he leaves!!

warriors 41, msu 38. awesome game!

ok, i don't want to be a hypocrite. i'm a huge warrior fan, but not a timmy chang fan at all. no disrespect meant to 'the man', groink and others, but there's a list of reasons that i can't bring myself to really root for the guy.

BUT, let it be said that he silenced all his critics tonight (including me). he had a terrific game, and so did the ultimate warrior, chad owens. chad played with a lot of heart! i believe that he and brewster have shots in at the nfl level.

what a kick azz job by everyone on that hawaii team. and especially to june jones. i agree w/ you, The Man - i have no idea who's yakking about getting rid of jones. perhaps they weren't around during the von-awful years.

next up, alabama-birmingham in the sheraton hawaii bowl.

go, warriors!!

jholic wrote:warriors 41, msu 38. awesome game!

ok, i don't want to be a hypocrite. i'm a huge warrior fan, but not a timmy chang fan at all. no disrespect meant to 'the man', groink and others, but there's a list of reasons that i can't bring myself to really root for the guy.

BUT, let it be said that he silenced all his critics tonight (including me) . . .
next up, alabama-birmingham in the sheraton hawaii bowl.

go, warriors!!

Well, Mr. Jholic is here! Welcome to the board, sir (opinionate, offer views . . . no ske'd, OK bruddah? Hahaha) I got your message (will be contacting you soon, we'll go to Ryan's or wherever for drinks and food or something. And we can discuss the aforementioned "list," hahaah, now you got me curious!).

Hoo-weee, the Hawai'i contingent's getting strong on this board. :)

Yeah, man . . . it is something, this win. One of those "wish you were here" in the islands, moment, hahhaha. Nice to wake up this morning to see that the newspapers on my doorstep confirmed that I DIDN'T dream that win. Add this win to the UH basketball team beats Kansas State U., UH football finally beats BYU, and the recent 30-0 Rainbow Wahine volleyball wins, etc., categories.

Now . . . if ESPN2 (YES, folks, a good chunk of the nation got to see ahem, ahem, COUNTED OUT UH beat Big 10-ness) could only show that game again, hahaha.